Question for the older gentlemen here.

[aokpops]

I was behind a vintage car in the drive threw with modern fuel this summer it was choking me out . Thank You EPA ! I wonder how I was this heathy growing up in this crap . When I grow people still used a outhouse turned the gym lights on with a screw in fuse . We live like a king now. Any King back in the day would be royatly now even on a small income . We complain about everything . Fuel is top notch now and only getting better . That old crap was for the birds homicides went down to half when they took the lead out the fuel . There were a few people that know this and made a lot of money to kept it under the wire .

 

[buzz sawyer]

I have searched desperately and I cannot find a station that sells non-ethanol gas. Every pump I have looked at says may contain up to 10% ethanol. I’ve looked at those on line lists and when I get there the pumps say up the same thing. What can you do?

Any chance there is a marina nearby? I know you're in CO. Rec 90 sold for marine engines is ethanol free.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Here is my pennies worth. I grew up on a Air Force base in the fifties. So I could get any kind of AV gas I wanted. Some engines need 160 Octane fuel to perform at their best. At that time it was loaded with lead. It did not take long for most of us to learn that high octane fuel is not for two stroke motors. If you really needed some thing for performance you would mix 160 with high test. There is nothing wrong with ethanol laced fuels for most two stroke or chainsaw. In the sixties I started building auto engines which were 10:1 or more or a lot more. With high octane fuel one could push the boundaries of spark advance. Then started using straight alcohol with Nitro. With out a huge budget the whole concept was worthless. As a result I found a 110 to 115 was all I ever needed. Even very high tuned two stroke motors do not need more than 95. thanks

 

[lostone]

Lead wasn't for performance, when it was added to fuel in the past it was a buffer. That is why, when you restore an older vehicle that was designed to run leaded gas you should have hard seats placed in the heads so the valves don't damage the older seats or use a modern lead addative. Without the lead additive or hard seats the old style seats have no buffering from the valves and it is hard on them.
You don't have valves in your chainsaw engine so with or without lead would make no difference as far as that goes, about the only thing that lead would help on would be an old cast cylinder (pre chrome or nikasil liners) it would act as a buffer for ring wear possibly but a modern high quality synthetic two stroke oil would take care of that. As far as Ethanol goes, when it was first brought out it was tearing up fuel pumps, carb diaphragm's and fuel hoses so they started changing what they made those out of to deal with the ethanol, you can still see some carb kits say either "ethanol safe or at least a % of ethanol safe" or "don't use with ethanol fuel" on the kits or if you look up who makes them sometimes you can find it on their site. Even in modern saws owner manual you can find where they will say not to use a fuel with more than X% of ethanol.

 

[hosocat]

I have searched desperately and I cannot find a station that sells non-ethanol gas. Every pump I have looked at says may contain up to 10% ethanol. I’ve looked at those on line lists and when I get there the pumps say up the same thing. What can you do?

If they advertise no alcohol fuel they probably have it somewhere. Ask the attendant. Around here they will have it on the same pump as the ethanol fuels, and the only way you can tell is by looking closely at the label on the pump under the buttons that mark the fuel and by looking at the price, which is almost a dollar more per gallon than the ethanol gas. I can only find 87 octane ethanol free around here, but it seems to work fine in all my machines.

 

[aokpops]

No one wants to live when I grow up . Your pay was all the water you could drink out of garden hose . Need any help good luck . Had a problem a willow switch would solve it . That is how I grew up. I was ask why wait 20 years till you see doctor ? My education was from 1800 hundreds we had grade one an two in same class all threw elementaty 3 4 5 6 same room turn the gym lights on with a screw fuse . The great Repubican machine ran very hard threw NW Ohio in my day . Fuel is the Last problem we need to talk about . These cheap SOB just wanted to pocket a lot money . And that is what they did I bused a one hour trip one way . Two hours round trip on a f222 you school bus . I say screw it . I had some WW 2 vets that were very nice to me . My education was a wreck at best like I said we split grades 1 an 2 all threw grade school . I think I over come at lot of Horse shi in that time . No matter how you believe fuel toxic . What would happen when school is toxic ?

 

[KASH]

I grew up in a tiny remote village in north western Ontario.My parents ran a small fishing resort water acsess only. We rowed a boat to school and walked across the ice in winter. 54 kids from grade one to eight in one room.We did not have electricity till I was in grade 6.When you finished grade eight your parents went to the city 70 miles away and sought a place for you to roam and board in some elses house.At 13 years old you lived in a strangers house.If you check the facts a greater portion of our students went on to higher education and lucrative careers than most other schools in citys.My oldest sister worked for her room and board in grade nine and ten She retired as head nurse.
Any way they put lead in the gas to protect the valve seats in older vehicles.I Don't want to start on ethanol I hate it with a passion.Back in the day my dad bought marine or as it was also called white gas this was unleaded The reason he did was leaded fouled plugs and he could get a gas tax refund on marine gas we ran a lot of leaded and there was no difference in performance.The great thing about unleaded was we used it in the coleman lanterns and coleman stoves. most of the pumps here are still real gas and work well in colemans. In the winter they used to add alcohol or a similar item as a de icer and call it winter gas. I get a good laugh when I see some one putting gas line anti freeze in a vehicle with ethanol
fuel in the tank. How much alcohol fuel do you want Bub.
Kash
I hitch hiked home from Thunder BAy to Kashabowie many many times.The day after shool finished in grade 11 I was hitch hiking from the bay to home and couldn't get a ride and I walked 24 miles before my brother drove up in his 72 Road Runner 440 mag. He sure looked good at that moment.

 

[farmer steve]

I worked for my Dad from 72 to about 86. All he used in his trucks and saws was Amoco High test no lead. It was called white gas back then. When he retired and I kept most of his saws, I started using Stihl Ultra and regular no lead. I still use his 100CC Homelite Super 1050 and I can't tell any difference. For 45+ years that has been my absolute favorite saw. I have a few of his smaller saws still and if I take the time to fiddle with them they run just like they did way back when. If I had a time machine and could run one as it was new, set it down, and run it as it is now, I may tell a difference. But, if I pick it up and it does the job, I'm happy.

I remember the "white gas" Joe. Hadn't heard that term in years. Back in "63" when we did our cross country camping trip dad would always be on the lookout for a Amoco station to get it for our coleman cookstove. Damn we're gettin old buddy.

 

[Bret4207]

I think the poorer quality of todays gasolines is more than offset by the much, much higher quality of our oils. I won't use ethanol fuel if I can possibly help it and my saw fuel system issues have shown that's a good idea. The oils are worlds better, but they won't fix a worn out saw.

 

[HarleyT]

Most of my life everyone I knew used gas to wash their hands. Not so much anymore. Is it proven its bad for you? What does it cause, neurological problems?

I have developed a nice set of boobs for a man,
my boyhood dreams have been realized.

 

[joe25DA]

My 84 c30 came out at an in between time. Back then (pre 86 or 87) if you bought a gas HD truck over 8500lbs gvw (3/4 and up) it was emission exempt. No smog pump no catalytic converter. And theyd run happy on lead gas. My gas gauge does not say “unleaded fuel only”. This truck has the “M” code heavy duty 350 which depending on the source means different things. The biggest difference I have in running that truck is adding a zinc additive to the oil for the valve seats and more importantly the cam. I have chrome moly 1.6:1 roller rockers but cam tappets are flat not roller.

 

[medalist]

Yep, I had a Tiger in my tank!
We had to choose between dialing your own octane at Sunoco (.13) or buying that overpriced Amoco white gas for (.24.)
Carbon build up? Maybe it was the fuel because on small air cooled engines I don't see it anymore but valve guide tolerances have seriously tightened up as well as many engines using valve guide seals.
I had a barn full of turf maintenance equipment and had issues with Red Max 2 strokes seizing piston rings (on piston, not cylinder). I started buying REC fuel 89 octane and never had a failure after. Red Max owners manual indicates fuel requirements.

Might just be me but the leaded fuel back in the day smelled better to me and when it went bad, smelled worse.
Might be my nose though....

Ether was far better for beading tires than "starting fluid" they sell today.

 

[edisto]

Use a good quality oil, mix it thoroughly, keep it fresh, and don't leave the ethanol laced fuel setting in the tank for long periods.

Mark

I always dump the tank, and run my 2-strokes dry before putting them up, and I haven't had any issues.

I also have installed fuel shut-off valves on any 4-stroke equipment that I own that didn't come with them so that I can run the carb dry as well.

 

[buzz sawyer]

I remember the "white gas" Joe. Hadn't heard that term in years. Back in "63" when we did our cross country camping trip dad would always be on the lookout for a Amoco station to get it for our coleman cookstove. Damn we're gettin old buddy.

We had Amoco at our service station beginning in the late 60s. That white gas was good stuff.

 

[Wood Doctor]

For the smoothest driving and just riding along
With your engine humming that happy Conoco song.
Yes, Conoco, hottest brand going.

It was a catchy tune. I worked there (Ponca City, OK) in the late '60s as a technical sales rep. The money was used to help pay for graduate school. Good people and a good job, but LBJ and the Vietnam war ruined it all.

 

[Canyon Angler]

Lead was added to prevent detonation...

Didn't it also lubricate the valve stems or something?

White gas is naphtha ... same thing as Coleman "camp fuel" you can buy at Walmart in gallon cans (also the same thing as "lighter fluid").

 

[deye223]

Didn't it also lubricate the valve stems or something?

White gas is naphtha ... same thing as Coleman "camp fuel" you can buy at Walmart in gallon cans (also the same thing as "lighter fluid").

It's called Shellite here in OZ

 

[heimannm]

The "white gas" of Coleman type fuel is very low octane, in the range of 50-55. Amoco "white gas" would have been 85-89 octane or perhaps a bit higher. Two different product with the same name.

Tetraethyl lead was added primarily as an octane booster to prevent pre-ignition / detonation which in turn allowed manufacturers to increase compression ratios and therefore performance of their engines. An added benefit of the leaded fuel was some "lubrication" of the valve seats, particularly of the exhaust valves. Without the lead there was some micro welding occurring which lead to damage of the valves and valve seats. Without the leaded fuel it was necessary to develop better materials for the valves and valve seats including Stellite valve seats. In the old days virtually every auto shop including high school auto shop facilities had a valve grinder as well as devices for dressing the valve seats. With the improvements in materials, valves and seat today can achieve 200,000 to 300,000 miles in many passenger cars and trucks.*

Mark

* If you happen to live in areas of the country where they use salt on the road as a de-icer, the engine may be able to achieve 300,000 miles but the frame may break or the floorboard rot away so your feet drag on the ground somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000 miles.

 

[REJ2]

Mark is absolutely correct with the octane rating of Coleman fuel. Its not very high. Ive got more naptha burning appliances than the above average fella. North of 400 fuel burning pieces. If my place ever catches on fire, you'll see it.

 

[KASH]

Marine or white gas in Canada back in the day was unleaded regular.You could buy naptha in bulk at the dealers .I don't have as many Colemans as you but I probably am pushing a hundred.I guess i can blame it on CAD just sub the word coleman for chain saw.I still run them on unleaded gas.At the resort we had outpost cabins on isolated lakes and if the tourists ran out of lantern fuel some would fill the lanterns with 24to 1 mixed gas they got a little light for a bit then the generators on those old 242s would start to plug up.I have my mothers collection of Coleman tools and parts she fixed hundreds of Colemans as they were all we had for the resort.
Kash