rig guy wirestops

[pdqdl]

Regarding lightning rods

It is not exactly true that lighting rods don't "attract" lightning, for two different reasons.

1. A sharp point tends to improve the ability of static electricity to make the leap into the air. This is most likely due to the lower resistance of the metal and the tendency of all the available charge to be focused at the single highest point (closest to the opposite charge) rather than diffusely spread across a broad surface. Lightning strikes are essentially gigantic capacitor discharges. If the stored capacitance is spread out over a large area, it just doesn't jump the air gap as well.

Example: if you take a static electricity generator and set two steel balls exactly 1" apart (hooked up to leyden jars or some other capacitor), you will get loud, powerful sparks. If the same setup is hooked up to steel pin points exactly 1" apart, the frequency of the sparks is greater, but the spark is weaker, because less electricity was stored before the spark jumped the air gap.

2. By providing a point of least resistance to the ground, you are also providing a path of least resistance to voltage accumulation. Most ground to sky lightning is the result of raindrops carrying electrons to the ground, where they pool. Conversely, the clouds become positively charged by the same mechanism. Eventually, the voltage peaks in a location most favorable for the transfer of electrons, and we have lightning.

If the lightning rod is well grounded, it will definitely improve the transfer of static voltage to the top of the building, where it will certainly be more likely to be involved with a lightning strike.

Perhaps some electrical engineer will pipe in with better info on this topic.

 

[randyg]

4 Year Test Results

I recently removed a hackberry that I had installed 2 cables in around 4 years ago. I'd used the Rigguy terminals and 3/8s EHS cable. The amount of corrosion inside the "nut" and around the "cone" was very minimal however, upon splitting the wood to inspect the cable inside the tree, I felt physically sick when I saw what had been hidden. No rust but much of the coating had loosened from the cable and all this white and green slimey crap was all over everything. Not feeling very "proud" of this system since that day. I think if high $ targets are present, I'm going back to through bolts. Used to hand wrap/splice the standard grade, but think I will switch to those dead-end splices with thimbles so can stick with EHS cable.

Anyone else with 5 or 6 year results? I think the "endz" system was out a year or two before rigguy. VERY similar.

 

[treevet]

That is quite significant that the "covering" of protection had been degraded by whatever forces involved in such a short period and the cable was left much more subject to rust. I would forward those findings and maybe some pictures to ANSI.

Also in regards to switching to just ehs instead of common grade....I wonder if the life span of one is any different than the other. If not then common grade is fine for some applications.

 

[randyg]

That is quite significant that the "covering" of protection had been degraded by whatever forces involved in such a short period and the cable was left much more subject to rust. I would forward those findings and maybe some pictures to ANSI.

Also in regards to switching to just ehs instead of common grade....I wonder if the life span of one is any different than the other. If not then common grade is fine for some applications.

Though there was no rust, reminded me of some galvonic corrosion I'd seen on some boat parts, esp. around salt water. Got no pics, and since HO paid $200 each, said he wanted to keep them, show buddies or whatever? Both cables were installed "not-level?" at about a 10 or 15 degree slant, and was on the ground when I split one open so not sure, but may have been the down-hill one which would account for the moisture? Did not take time to crack open the other end. Hind sight. Next time I'll surely make closer examination.

 

[treevet]

Cool...I am gonna start taking some closer looks when the op. presents itself too. I am currently documenting all installations separate from just completed work orders.

 

[treeseer]

No rust but much of the coating had loosened from the cable and all this white and green slimey crap was all over everything.

Without any record this is tough to use this experience. Green slime may be ugly but a nonissue.

Maybe your client can be persuaded to part with the cable if he knows it is going to further science. I'd like to know how much coating was lost, and the possible consequences, and I'm sure others would too. It should go to the manufacturer, and/or someone else who can assess it professionally.

Sorry but with no evidence this can't be considered as anything more than hearsay. Not even an image taken of this?

 

[jomoco]

The very crux of the flaw in the Rigguy system is what it does to the 7 strand cable itself.

And until Rigguy can get any 7 strand cable manufacturer in the world including china to sign off on using their cables in his system, anyone using his system is taking a big chance in my opinion.

Galvinized coatings are essential to any steel cable's ability to meet it's estimated safe working life.

To separate and crush each strand of cable to achieve a safe termination point is a direct assault on the cables anti-corrosion coating that inevitably shortens the safe lifespan of the cable.

And that's just one of the drawbacks of the Rigguy system, sideloading repeatedly bending the cable at the same entrance hole in the cabled stem is another, along with the wear of steel on wood creating a funneled entrance hole that can never truly heal for as long as the wind blows in any crossing direction.

This sideloading frictional wear is isolated to the steel on steel coupling of the eyebolt ring and cable thimble when using good old tried and true old school systems with a century of proven ability supporting their usage in tree preservation.

I'm not so old school that I don't support the use of EHS 7 strand and dead end grips in almost all my installed cabling though, because I do. I think it's a great trustworthy combo provided you match the correct size cable to the correct sized dead end grip.

Just an old geezer's opinion guys.

jomoco

 

[treevet]

Another geezer espousing the same stuff til blue in the face Jomoco. As I said in previous posts....there is no way to improve or correct the termination as it is the whole basis of this system.

 

[treeseer]

To separate and crush each strand of cable to achieve a safe termination point is a direct assault on the cables anti-corrosion coating that inevitably shortens the safe lifespan of the cable.

ok, if by "crush" you mean bend, yes, the strands are bent, the center strand maybe 75-80% and the other 6 much less. As I observe it, the bending points on these strands is outside the full load-bearing portion of the system, because it is outside the fastener. It's the pressure/friction inside the fastener where most of the load is terminated.But I agree this is a concern, so it should be part of the inspection, triennial in most cases.

... sideloading repeatedly bending the cable at the same entrance hole in the cabled stem is another, along with the wear of steel on wood creating a funneled entrance hole that can never truly heal for as long as the wind blows in any crossing direction.

This can happen, IF the cable is not running in a straight line per ANSI, or if the cable is not adequately tensioned, per ANSI. So, as with any system, substandard installation can screw it up. If the angles and the loads make a lot of sideloading probable, maybe another system is preferable.

 

[treevet]

I think it is inclement weather (high winds) that makes side loading and even slacking by driving the loaded branch backwards and swinging, most probable cause Guy and this is what will destroy wall 4 CODIT. IMHO Wall 4 CODIT is a substantial factor in retaining integrity and longevity of system.

 

[pdqdl]

Bump.

Old thread, but I am seeking newer opinions. Has anyone got any newer information on the use of the Rigguy wire stop installations?

I can say with confidence that my very few installations have gotten easier: a good battery operated 4" angle grinder makes very short work of cutting EHS cable. It is much better than the air powered die grinder I used to use.

 

[gorman]

Bump.

Old thread, but I am seeking newer opinions. Has anyone got any newer information on the use of the Rigguy wire stop installations?

I can say with confidence that my very few installations have gotten easier: a good battery operated 4" angle grinder makes very short work of cutting EHS cable. It is much better than the air powered die grinder I used to use.

That’s what I use when doing cables. I have yet to use the bevels they came out with but am definitely going to pick some up so i can get a nicer fit against the stems on angled cables.

 

[pdqdl]

Not sure what you mean.

"Have yet to use the bevels"? Do you mean those funny looking angled blocks they sell too? Quite frankly, I don't see the purpose. Those looked like they would be as inadequate as not using them at all unless you magically drilled crooked at the correct "wrong" angle, so why buy them?

For all trees where there is a large taper, it would be impossible to make both faces of the cable entry perpendicular to the hole. Even if you fixed one side of the hole with an angled contraption, that would still leave the exit hole at an odd angle.

The purists would argue that they need to be perfectly straight. Much earlier in this thread, I think one guy had a laser pointer rigged to his drill motor so that he could get perfect alignment on the previous hole. I suspect that works very well. Myself...I'm not quite that perfect. I just eyeball it, and hope it comes out right.

 

[gorman]

If the rig guy is at an angle it will exert a disproportionate force on certain wire strands depending on the angle. The bevel eliminates that so there’s minimum strength loss.

 

[pdqdl]

That is consistent with any other plan to keep things perpendicular. My problem is that there is only one bevel device, so how can it compensate for the many different angles an installer is likely to end up with?

I looked a fairly well done cable installation today, but it was probably 15 years old. It was probably done with eye-screws and only in 5/16 cable; the terminations were hand wrapped and almost completely buried in new growth. At this late stage, the cabling height was only about 1/3rd the height of the tree branches being supported. I think it's probably a good thing that the tree is pretty strong otherwise.

 

[gorman]

There are some that hated on the rig guys (mr. Shaw) and claimed instances of failure. Personally I’ve never seen it and neither have my colleagues. I don’t do a lot of cabling but when I do I always use rig guys.