Everyone has their fave--footlocking, ascenders, airhumping aka bodythrusting, spurs--but what is the overall safest? Assume for each that the climber is sober and using the right equipment, knots, experience, etc.
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Safest Method of Entry
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beowulf343
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It all depends on which method you were taught, which method you use the most, and which is most comfortable for you. I've spent alot of times on spikes with no serious problems. But get me on a ladder and bad things seem to happen. Yet people keep trying to tell me ladders are safer.
begleytree
H. sapiens moderatus
I saw Maas looking at this thread, it had to be him that voted trampoline!!!
-Ralph
-Ralph
Jim1NZ
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Well if your talking safety, all are safe if executed correctly. In a rescue situation, a climber that had been body-thrusting would be the easiest to bring down...
OTG BOSTON
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now for the why
I vote bodythrusting as being the safest because there is no need to switch over to decend. You can be tied in from groung to top and back to the ground without ever having to change hardwear or climbing systems. Now as far as the fastest..............................................
I vote bodythrusting as being the safest because there is no need to switch over to decend. You can be tied in from groung to top and back to the ground without ever having to change hardwear or climbing systems. Now as far as the fastest..............................................
Blinky
ArboristSite Operative
I voted ascenders because that's what I know best, but gaffs are safe too once you have the hang of'em, definitely a lot quicker getting off the ground... I'm not getting into many trees where I can use the gaffs though. Ladders are efficient for entry but I never feel safe on a ladder... same goes for buckets. Cranes are great... but I don't have crane.
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OTG BOSTON
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046 said:
get one they rock!!!! I use one and a one handed ascender on the downrope, makes things very easy. I'd still consider this method bodythrusting
Kneejerk Bombas
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No, I didn't vote because i don't think the poll makes much sense.begleytree said:I saw Maas looking at this thread, it had to be him that voted trampoline!!!
-Ralph
The safest way, is to get a rope up in the tree, and pull on the tree with two or three guys to make sure its a safe tree, and then to ascend in a way that you are belayed by a second person.
Once you've tested the tree, and your tied in, what method you use to to get up, whether it's spiking, footlocking, climbing a ladder, or body thrusting, doesn't matter.
If you just throw a lanyard around the tree and start spiking, you don't have the advantage of testing the tree before entry, you have the possibility of sliding down the spar if you spike out, and if you need areal rescue, that will be quite a bit harder too.
If you just lean a ladder on a spar and climb, that's dangerous because the ladder could tip off the spar, or the climber could fall off the ladder. That said I free climb ladders all the time, if the top of the ladder is wedged between branches so it can fall, otherwise I throw a rope up first then climb it.
Ladders are the entry method of my choice because 9 out 0f 10 trees I climb have canopies that start at or below 30 feet, so it's the easiest and I feel just as safe, or safer than spiking, which I can't do if it's a trim anyway.
If a ladder is going to be a problem for whatever reason, I climb a single rope with a backed up handled ascender and a foot ascender. Then abandon the SRT and climb my normal system. This has the advantage of easy access for a rescuer, should it ever be needed.
ladder may be the easiest, but certainly not the safest.
fall if any are limited by height of ladder, so probably would not life threatening.
too easy to climb up ladder, then rope in. it's that minute of exposure that I prefer to avoid.
if I use a ladder, I'll rope in, then climb ladder.
fall if any are limited by height of ladder, so probably would not life threatening.
too easy to climb up ladder, then rope in. it's that minute of exposure that I prefer to avoid.
if I use a ladder, I'll rope in, then climb ladder.
Mike Maas said:
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Kneejerk Bombas
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Ladders are tools. If you don't know how to properly use any tool it can be dangerous. For those of you doing residential tree work, how do you get on the roof to clean up after a big removal? SRT? Spike? LOL!
Seriously, if you can't safely climb a secured ladder (the top wedged between two limbs and the base held by a groundman), then you have no business climbing around in a tree.
ANSI has been batting around the idea of having us tied in before climbing a ladder for tree work. I don't know, maybe it's already a standard.
Seriously, if you can't safely climb a secured ladder (the top wedged between two limbs and the base held by a groundman), then you have no business climbing around in a tree.
ANSI has been batting around the idea of having us tied in before climbing a ladder for tree work. I don't know, maybe it's already a standard.
oh dont get me wrong, I can use a ladder to get to a roof, or to reach the shop lights, but i just dont like using ladders. Probably stems from being 40 feet up a ladder (aluminum) several years and having the ladder collapse like tinfoil.
Kneejerk Bombas
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Scary, I hope you didn't get seriously injured.
What caused the failure?
What caused the failure?
begleytree
H. sapiens moderatus
Guy, just curious, but why is crane an option here. everyone knows it's illegal to ride the hook, thereby, crane is a moot point. you can't do it anyway.
or is this your way of finding out how many still do ride hooks?
-Ralph
or is this your way of finding out how many still do ride hooks?
-Ralph
Climb020
ArboristSite Operative
Treeseer I get your point of the post but lets think all of these options through. Everyone has their opinion but let's try and use some common sense. For reasoning purposes lets assume that by entry you mean to get to the top for the ideal TIP to work the tree.
In order for it to be the safest way to enter the tree, you also have to have a fast way of exit if an emerency would arise. Now that alone would take off footlocking and ascenders.
Taking in that trees can get pretty big both the ladder and the trampoline won't get you to the top. As well if you are not tied in using a ladder you could fall right off of it.
So now we are down to bodythrusting, spurs and crane.
Bodythrusting does sound like a good one being you can easily enter and exit the tree at any time but you could have TIP so that wouldn't be so great.
Spurs is only a half soluction first of all. That cannot be used all the time. As well anytime you are using a sharp tool the chance of something getting cut/stabbed is a possibility. As well even the most expierenced guys can gaff out which could as well lead to injury.
Last is the crane. If you use a false crotch with you rope on the ball you can easily exit the tree. The crane will allow you to inspect the tree from the top, after inspecting from the ground. This is the only option that puts you in a postition where you won;t be entering the tree from the bottom, where hangers could come loose and hit you. Only accident that could happen would be crane failure or tip over but if you go by treeseers second line in his post this would not happen with proper equipement and operaters.
In order for it to be the safest way to enter the tree, you also have to have a fast way of exit if an emerency would arise. Now that alone would take off footlocking and ascenders.
Taking in that trees can get pretty big both the ladder and the trampoline won't get you to the top. As well if you are not tied in using a ladder you could fall right off of it.
So now we are down to bodythrusting, spurs and crane.
Bodythrusting does sound like a good one being you can easily enter and exit the tree at any time but you could have TIP so that wouldn't be so great.
Spurs is only a half soluction first of all. That cannot be used all the time. As well anytime you are using a sharp tool the chance of something getting cut/stabbed is a possibility. As well even the most expierenced guys can gaff out which could as well lead to injury.
Last is the crane. If you use a false crotch with you rope on the ball you can easily exit the tree. The crane will allow you to inspect the tree from the top, after inspecting from the ground. This is the only option that puts you in a postition where you won;t be entering the tree from the bottom, where hangers could come loose and hit you. Only accident that could happen would be crane failure or tip over but if you go by treeseers second line in his post this would not happen with proper equipement and operaters.
Climb020
ArboristSite Operative
He didn't say the option had to be legal just what the safest was.begleytree said:
Well dang. I started this poll cuz clearance stated spurs were safest, while I am sure they are not. I've heard tales of folks flipping down after kicking out, and I've lost some hide off of chin and forearms that way. but spurs rank #1 among you all so far 
, likely because that's what you know best from removal work; nothing wrong with that. Maybe I should have added "for pruning", but so be it.
I agree with OTG also, tho I've switched to ascenders as the default method due to shoulder pain. Maas as usual was on the mark too.
re ladders, in the 2000 ANSI, 9.1.2 allows for ladder climbing without being tied in. The buzz has it that certain radical elements want to make tie-in mandatory as soon as your feet are on the first rung , but I don't know if that flew into the most recent version.
That's how it is in the UK, our role model for overregulation.:monkey:
, likely because that's what you know best from removal work; nothing wrong with that. Maybe I should have added "for pruning", but so be it.I agree with OTG also, tho I've switched to ascenders as the default method due to shoulder pain. Maas as usual was on the mark too.
re ladders, in the 2000 ANSI, 9.1.2 allows for ladder climbing without being tied in. The buzz has it that certain radical elements want to make tie-in mandatory as soon as your feet are on the first rung
, but I don't know if that flew into the most recent version. That's how it is in the UK, our role model for overregulation.:monkey:
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