Sealing Wounds?

[huskycandoit]

I worked with a guy today that insisted on treating each cut with a sealer. I believe in the school of leaving the wound as is, thinking that sealing holds moisture in the wound causing the sound wood to rot.

What is your practice?

 

[Elmore]

sealer

When pruning I don't use it but when removing the understock from a successful graft I will seal the cut end. Lately I have been using a product called Doc Farwell's Seal and Heal

 

[xander9727]

I only believe in coating wounds on Oak trees between April and September to prevent the spread of Oak Wilt. I will not prune during these months but if a branch must be removed or there is storm damage I will coat. I believe that it inhibits healing. I get this from articles I have read and seminars I have attended.

 

[xander9727]

Mike you bring up a great point. Do you remember any details of the article, what publication, month, year, issue, who did the study? I would love to read it......I'm always looking for ways to improve myself.

 

[Tree Machine]

I never coat, but I do fill small up-welled cavities to prevent the rain from going in and catalyzing decay.

 

[glens]

It's a multipurpose compound which is now familiar to me...

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Sealants can do more harm than good; Shigo's observations did lead to the current avoidance except in cases of specific disease transmission.

I use a shellac-based sealant on big wounds, especially ones that will be prone to cracking. It's only experimental, but it seems negligent not to try something to lessen decay.

 

[Treeman14]

"Let's do SOMETHING, even if its wrong."

- Jack Hanson

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by Treeman14
"Let's do SOMETHING, even if its wrong."

Wow, that is Funny. Was the definition of what is wrong cast in stone 20 years ago? Only the closed-minded oversimplify to preserve a paradigm.

From Fungal Strategies of Wood Decay in Trees, p. 162: "Cracks in the wood form pathways for wood-decay fungi to overcome a reaction zone. This phenomenon has already been observed by Shigo."
Therefore, preventing cracks preserves codit. If you have questions about wood decay, read the book.

 

[Tree Machine]

Here are Dr Shigo's cracks

What Guy said, what Maas said, and what what Treeguy14 said.

The image shows an up-welled cavity forming. Rain percolates into it, the irregular surface adds greatly to the surface area within the cavity as available food for fungus.

I saw this next cavity as, well, what guy said, to do nothing was to be negligent.

And then the ZEN left hook outta nowhere,

Only the closed-minded oversimplify to preserve a paradigm.

Dang, Mister, where'd ya come out with that? That sorta like kinda summates all potential for endless possibilities, new change, expression of ideas, shedding the shackles of convention and stripping away our old, tired beliefs, truths and ways. We're not talking about filling cavities here anymore.

Mueller, you're way ahead of your time. You're like, a Tree Nostradamus.

 

[Tree Machine]

"Let's do SOMETHING, even if its wrong."

I can agree that this intentioned effort is SOMETHING. I invite anybody to support how it may be wrong.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

TM,

The best solution for stopping decay is 100% moisture. The decay organisms are aerobic, take away oxygen ane they die. Keeping wounds dry or saturated is the best way to reduce decay. When you put goop on the wound you're providing an environment that is moist, neither dry nor saturated. the perfect environment for decay.

At one of Shigo's talks he suggested that we set up small pumps and spray nozzles in cavities to keep the wood saturated. Not realisitic in the big world but sure could be rigged easily. People have fish ponds, water features and irrigated turf, why not do the same for trees?

How can doing something, even if it's wrong, be the best solution? That's a cute thing to say but what validity does it have?

A friend of mine took her daughter to the dentist for a checkup. The dentist has some gizmo that senses cavities. He suggested putting in a dozen fillings. She called a cousin who is a dentist and was told that this gizmo is not tested and proven. She took her daughter to another dentist who found one cavity and a couple of places to watch. The gizmo dentist was asked about the different diagnosis and was told that his gizmo is the latest tool. He couldn't balance the other diagnosis. My friend knew that he was babbling and was trying to bamboozle her with techy stuff. Would you want to subject yourself or your children to needless fillings?

Tom

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Originally posted by Tree Machine
And then the ZEN left hook outta nowhere,

"Only the closed-minded oversimplify to preserve a paradigm." -Guy Muieller


Dang, Mister, where'd ya come out with that? That sorta like kinda summates all potential for endless possibilities, new change, expression of ideas, shedding the shackles of convention and stripping away our old, tired beliefs, truths and ways. We're not talking about filling cavities here anymore.

Mueller, you're way ahead of your time. You're like, a Tree Nostradamus.

and

At the end of Shigo's "Modern Arboculture":
"Kicking and Screaming
they resisted being
dragged from the shadows,
of the cave;
out into the light of
Understanding."

Doesn't have to be looked at as Zen mystery.

Is not shedding the shackles, stripping away old beleifs reminiscient of Plato's Cave Alleghory (quoted by Doc Shigo)?

Following in his teachers footsteps (Plato) Aristotle extended this to a flow of logic; that we look at things as a succession of steps that end up at the finish as a result. A clean, deductive result, to result etc. understanding. But, Nature's system knows it's target, so the steps are not haphazard to where they end up; but rather performed to get to a goal, that lends to the next; because it is calculated more inductively from goal to previous step. A pattern that is harder for us to follow. So our logic moves one way and Nature's working kinda the other; thus the pardigms in understanding.

It seems the good doc, knew he was giving us these new things, and there would be these battles that he seeked to prepare us for.

The paradigm's are all around in many things. Donella Meadows' twelve leverage points to intervene in a system deals with the deep truth of revealing a paradigm being the best leveraged power to provide change in a buisness hierarchy.

Thomas Kuhn in "Structure of Scientific Revolutions" really brought out the understanding of paradigms in our century, in an examination of the history of science as we know it. How many times the only way to advance, was to turn around and go the opposite direction that our understanding was taking us.

Let the real light shine.

Or,
something like that.......
Deuce!
:alien: :alien:

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
Current ideas of using paint, wax, epoxy, and human sperm, only make wood decay faster.

human sperm who did research on this product ??...or are you just kidding

 

[xander9727]

Mike,
Is that an off site preparation or do you apply it "fresh off the tap"?

If there are multiple trees do you have others assist?

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

 

[Nickrosis]

The world is dying for answers.

 

[Tree Machine]

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
TM,

The decay organisms are aerobic, take away oxygen ane they die. When you put goop on the wound you're providing an environment that is moist, neither dry nor saturated. the perfect environment for decay.

OK, thank you for establishing that decay organisms are aerobic. Take away oxygen and they die. This is a very key point.


What if this 'goop' you speak of is impermeable to oxygen, as well as moisture, and yes we trap some moisture in the cavity that was there to begin with. Why is this a perfect environment for decay. Lets talk CODIT. Let's say the tree compartmentalizes fairly well, there was a small cavity, but the callus fully closed over and sealed.

Did the tree finally create a perfect environment for decay for itself? That would be a pretty lousy defense, in the evolutionary sense.

No, the tree closes over and creates a compartmentalization of the decay in the tree.

My intent with my field experiment is to complete the CODIT process ahead of Mother Nature's intended schedule. Right now I'm working on small, but progressive degenerative cavities, attempting to arrest decay in its tracks. If the CODIT walls inside the tree are intact, and the sealed wound site creates an oxygen / water impermeable barrier, CODIT is, by definition, complete.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

There are trees that have weak CODIT walls, like basswood and maples. There are also decay organisms that are hearty eaters. Combine the two with the right environment and the decay is likely to weaken the tree.

Quite a while ago I found some information on using ethylene glycol in a mixture as a rot resistant treatment. The US Navy has a recipe that they use on their wooden ships. It seemed to me that it if worked there it might have some merit in trees. There is a bit of phyto-toxicity but that might be a trade off to lessen the decay. The Bob's, Underwood and Wulkie, both seemed to think the idea has merit. The next step would be to interest a grad student in doing the research. Nick, are you reading this?

Tom

 

[Nickrosis]

But of course. I'm in a different field, though. I'm taking on an intern to do tree research this summer, though. Her picture is right here:
<---

In all seriousness, I plan to take on an intern each year for the foreseeable future since I know the value to students of offering these opportunities and since I know there are benefits that our company can reap in a best-practices sense.