Seeking advice for pollarded eucalyptus

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outofmytree said:
I have seen some interesting "butressing" develop on stems at ground level where the only force I could see at work was wind. Likewise I have seen interesting wood develop where the epicormic stems join the older wood and rather than vertical this reaction wood(?) is left and right....
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There is a phenomena called "Bottle butt" that I have brought into discussions in the past, that I used to have some photos of but since have been displaced in my file by other pictures at the limit of capacity.

"Bottle butt, or swelling at the base of an oak (picture in book). This is an indicator of decay in the base or butts of trees. In the absence of fruiting bodies, it is necessary to rely on other indicators of decay to determine if a tree has internal decay" Pg. 9, Wood Decay Fungi, Christopher J. Luley, Ph.D.

This apparently is reaction wood formed in response to the base of the tree being challenged by the structural void IMO (chronic).

I could go take a picture of one of the many local trees that have this affliction if anyone is interested.
 
treevet said:
There is a phenomena called "Bottle butt" that I have brought into discussions in the past, that I used to have some photos of but since have been displaced in my file by other pictures at the limit of capacity.

"Bottle butt, or swelling at the base of an oak (picture in book). This is an indicator of decay in the base or butts of trees. In the absence of fruiting bodies, it is necessary to rely on other indicators of decay to determine if a tree has internal decay" Pg. 9, Wood Decay Fungi, Christopher J. Luley, Ph.D.

This apparently is reaction wood formed in response to the base of the tree being challenged by the structural void IMO (chronic).

I could go take a picture of one of the many local trees that have this affliction if anyone is interested.
Click to expand...

I would be very keen to see that reaction in Oaks as we have very few here. We have a number of trees here with similar responses and I have noted that it is most common on trees that have been topped. Perhaps a weakened specimen has a different response to a healthy one.

Swap you some L.confertus and S.molle photo's for your Quercus spp.
 
Deal on the trade Doc, but I do not think my example is an oak. Be back tomorrow as it is dark now and I would prob get shot or attacked by a dog.
 
Bottle butt is fairly circular and as tv said is a response to heart rot. Abnormal.

Buttress formation is centered around each buttress root. Normal.
 
treeseer said:
Bottle butt is fairly circular and as tv said is a response to heart rot. Abnormal.

Buttress formation is centered around each buttress root. Normal.
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:agree2:

...some large poincianas that have been thrashed around in storms seem to increase buttress wood in later years, you can see where the bark has changed as new wood is added, the same can be said for reaction wood on some of the long heavy branches...almost 'pinnochio noses' that would suggest internal stresses/cracks being compensated for.

This is purely anecdotal...but if you think about it, a tree gets thrashed around for hours in a storm, something shifts internally, so now the stresses must be normalized, or attempted...hence reaction wood in relevant areas.
 
treevet said:
The answer is I/we put in a lot of cable support systems. I usually accumulate a dozen or so so I can net a couple $grand and then go out and do them in one day. This happens maybe 6 times during the busy season. It is quite profitable.
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I am not sure that Profit is the basis of making objective decisions


People that install cables in accordance with ANSI standards do not want to have to bid against inferior systems (possibly because in their opinion... a. they are easier/faster and require less knowledge to install or b. "cost substantially less in materials") and have the homeowner not know they are comparing apples to oranges.

Kind of like showing up to bid a large pruning job and the guy you are bidding against is selling a roundover hatrack.
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No! More like showing up to a pruning job and only taking out the larger dead branches and then telling them that you will be back next year to do some more work on the tree. The assumption that this type of bracing is somehow inferior is like saying a helicopter is inferior to a plane ... they are not the same so a comparative value judgement is in error.

The problem in this entire discussion has been that both sides what to try and compare the two rather than assessing their comparative advantages independently. As is often the case there are two different sides to the coin and it is difficulty to see both sides at the same time without getting a little "cross eyed".
 
Corymbia, I think that despite the vigour with which individuals present their opinions about specific issues relating to the different cabling options out there, in actual fact the majority of qualified experienced Arborists that post here are a lot less monochromatic in their view of trees and our management interventions than it might seem.:)

The extenet of cabling for mitigation of identified defects within the branch architecture of trees in Oz is very limited in comparison with the USA, and not simply because of the vast differences in population figures.

Whilst I do not share Dave's very negative view about dynamic cabling (and have installed and seen installed many such systems in trees in Europe and even in Queensland!) I recognise the years of experience he and others have in the application of steel cabling (and bracing) in a great variety of tree species with a vast array of assessed problems.

It is sometimes worth the effort of wading past the rhetoric and personal irritations on these forums to find thought provoking comments on topics that are relevant to your own work.:cheers:
 
Bracing the facts

Sean,

I wasn't suggesting anything but exactly that! We need to look at each bracing method individually and look at its benefits and disadvantages in the context of arboricultural science. There are braces out there that are the better part of 100 years old so it is not a new practice and I am sure that the ANSI standards are well considered as are the German standards. This does not mean that one has to be wrong, it simply means they are different.

That said we need to be clear about the underlying science and it seems that this can get lost if we are not careful. If you asked old timers about painting cuts they would have assured you that it was good based on years of experience and observation. No, I am not suggesting that experience has no basis in science but observation needs science to back it up with a theory or an explanation otherwise it can again become subjective tripe.

To dismiss either bracing method outright is to assume that the other is a panacea and this mind set will certainly inhibit further development of bracing technology.
 
Maybe flexible bracing is not in need of any further technology.

To make an analogy such as painting wounds to not painting wounds and compare it to galvanized steel cables (what does monochromatic even mean?) and elastic supports is a misjustice to science in and of itself.
 
Sean, :agree2: that it is sometimes worth the effort of wading past the rhetoric and personal irritations on these forums to find thought provoking comments on topics that are relevant to your own work.

treevet said:
Maybe flexible bracing is not in need of any further technology. To make an analogy such as painting wounds to not painting wounds and compare it to galvanized steel cables (what does monochromatic even mean?) and elastic supports is a misjustice to science in and of itself.
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And then again, sometimes the rhetoric is so far over the top, you Can't wade through it.:chainsaw:
How can I ffigure out what shouldn't be
When it's so deep, so deep,I can't get under it, so high I can't get over it
It's so wide I can't get around it... Nowhere to run to, baby, nowhere to hide
Nowhere to run to, baby, nowhere to hide, Martha and the V's, a colorful group.

mono = one, chromatic = colored. Not discerning, or exhibiting, any shades between black and white. However, "Rules are too absolute for Mother Nature". A.S.
 
Keep your pants on

treevet said:
and elastic supports is a misjustice to science in and of itself.
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My trousers (by way of braces or suspenders), my socks and my underwear all stay up courtesy of science and not magic... sorry but elastic supports predate bracing in trees so there is no misjustice. Elasticity is a consideration of Material Science and these guys are boringly scientific

Don't get me wrong ... there is nothing like steel to rod up a split.

Perhaps the best application of the newer flexible systems is for fall arrest of a large lateral limb on a angiosperm that has lost its top ... cable is useless there. And to keep it on topic the largest angiosperm in the world, a Eucalyptus regnans, has lost its top quite some time ago so it is a bit like a pollarded Eucalyptus.
 
Corymbia said:
My trousers (by way of braces or suspenders), my socks and my underwear all stay up courtesy of science and not magic... sorry but elastic supports predate bracing in trees so there is no misjustice. Elasticity is a consideration of Material Science and these guys are boringly scientific

Don't get me wrong ... there is nothing like steel to rod up a split.

Perhaps the best application of the newer flexible systems is for fall arrest of a large lateral limb on a angiosperm that has lost its top ... cable is useless there. And to keep it on topic the largest angiosperm in the world, a Eucalyptus regnans, has lost its top quite some time ago so it is a bit like a pollarded Eucalyptus.
Click to expand...

You misunderstood my expression of injustice. I meant the analogy of pruning paints and support systems for lack of scientific comparison.

Why not just string an old climbing line or if bigger an old rigging rope and guess on the amount of slack necessary.....tie a loose bolen on each end and presto....you have the same set up.

You could do the same with a fall arrest prevention. Tie an old tire tube somewhere in the middle if it makes you feel higher tech.
 
treevet said:
You misunderstood my expression of injustice. I meant the analogy of pruning paints and support systems for lack of scientific comparison.
Click to expand...
The analogy sucked even more AFTER the explanation.

Pruning paints are used for "disease, insect, mistletoe, or sprout control, or for cosmetic reasons." ANSI A300 -1, 5.4.1 Lots of good science supporting sealants, in particular circumstances.

Time to trade in that monochromatic filter, eh?
 

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