Shaver Improvement Forum

[fletcher0780]

I will admit that I haven't read the whole thread but I was wondering how much the Shaver units are selling for? Is it that much of a savings over other brands? You guys don't seem too upset about having to do all this work to get them to run properly. You shouldn't have to babysit these things, just load wood and go on with your life. Not trying to be a jerk, I just can't believe the issues you guys have to deal with that should have been part of the basic design.

I saved about $1500 compared to a CB, but by the time I'm done that will be closer to $1000. To be honest, I enjoy tinkering with it, but I see your point.

 

[Windwalker7]

The Shaver 165, heats about 4000 square ft., costs about $4700 if you wanted to know. Compare that price to any other brand that heats equal square footage.

 

[fletcher0780]

The Shaver 165, heats about 4000 square ft., costs about $4700 if you wanted to know. Compare that price to any other brand that heats equal square footage.

And that price is after the $500 increase that occurred in May 08. I got my 290 with large door for $5100

 

[blakey]

I guess I wouldn't have the patience for it. I load wood and go to work, I don't think my wife has checked it at all this winter on her days off. Sounds like it should be a great unit once you get the bugs worked out. Shaver should get their act together.

 

[DLav]

Yes, they are about $1000-$1500 cheaper than other brands. But they have the thickest fire box of any.

I don't want to bum everybody out, and I don't know anything about these boilers, but I just stumbled on to an OWB built by ACME Furnace in Macon Mo. and they advertise a 235 gal with a 3/8 firebox for $4500, they look pretty decent in the pics. But then again so does the Shaver.

 

[DLav]

I will admit that I haven't read the whole thread but I was wondering how much the Shaver units are selling for? Is it that much of a savings over other brands? You guys don't seem too upset about having to do all this work to get them to run properly. You shouldn't have to babysit these things, just load wood and go on with your life. Not trying to be a jerk, I just can't believe the issues you guys have to deal with that should have been part of the basic design.

At some point I'm going to cut Shaver off the front door and weld my name on it.

 

[blakey]

I don't want to bum everybody out, and I don't know anything about these boilers, but I just stumbled on to an OWB built by ACME Furnace in Macon Mo. and they advertise a 235 gal with a 3/8 firebox for $4500, they look pretty decent in the pics. But then again so does the Shaver.

Does it have picture of Wylie Coyote on it? Sorry I couldn't resist. Is that their real name?

 

[John D]

I'm kinda thinking the same thing John. When it was warm the blower mod seemed like the cat's a55 but now that its cold, I'm wondering about it. I'm using more wood now than I was. I'm thinking about changing the linkage to something adjustable and instead of being wide open, only going half or 3/4. And adding the screw like you suggested before so that it has a little air when idling. Let me know how it goes.

As you know its been brutally cold the last few days,we had 7-8 degrees last night,with 40-50 mph wind gusts,absolutley brutal conditions,so its hard to tell,but i really think my wood useage increased with the damper mod,so im going to keep opening it slightly.Although I'm happy that I went 11 hrs last night,and still had some wood left,from a full front load only.I hope to get it around the same as 1/4 open in a stock setup,then when the blower comes on ill have full air flow capablity.Either way,im glad I did the blower mod.
On the Ranco, mine holds excellent,its set at 177 now,with a 5 degree diff. I find that when it shuts down it flares to 178 at the most,and upon firing up it drops 2 degrees past 172 down to 170.It holds temps dead on. I think that running the OWB circulator full time helps keep OWB temps stable as well,and I know Fletcher is cycling his with is indoor circs.I feel the little electricity increase is offset by keeping the indoor boiler hot,and keeping the OWB water circulation on,keeping firebox temps stable.Also running it full time ties the boilers together full time,making temp spikes less severe and noticeable as your spikes are absorbed by the plumbing and indoor boiler.I have no choice other than to run antifreeze as 30 ft of my piping is up the side of my house and thru my attic.I also run my indoor loop circ full time on low,its a 3 speed grundfos.

 

[John D]

At some point I'm going to cut Shaver off the front door and weld my name on it.

I feel the same way.I will build my own next time,without a doubt. My friends all have central boilers,and they have basically set it on the pad,and forgot about it.It is ready to work as delivered. My girlfreind commented about how its a good thing Im handy,as shes never seen a brand new product that cost that much need so much extra work just to function as it should have from day one.

 

[DLav]

Does it have picture of Wylie Coyote on it? Sorry I couldn't resist. Is that their real name?

Good stuff, I thought the same thing when I read the name. Ummmm didn't see Wylie or the Roadrunner on it, but who knows. I stumbled on to it on EBAY.

 

[DLav]

As you know its been brutally cold the last few days,we had 7-8 degrees last night,with 40-50 mph wind gusts,absolutley brutal conditions,so its hard to tell,but i really think my wood useage increased with the damper mod,so im going to keep opening it slightly.Although I'm happy that I went 11 hrs last night,and still had some wood left,from a full front load only.I hope to get it around the same as 1/4 open in a stock setup,then when the blower comes on ill have full air flow capablity.Either way,im glad I did the blower mod.

I'm glad I did it, what I meant was I'm not sure its tuned as good as it could be. I don't know why its spiking so high after the blower shuts off.

Glad I did the Ranco mod too, its maintaining temps more consistent now and hasn't boiled over. It's alot drier in the back of the unit with the DHW sealed, I haven't done the steam vent mod yet, I haven't used much water since I sealed the DHW cover. Mine sits level, but the vent has a slight upward angle, that may help.

My pump is running on demand, not sure if this is ideal or not. Shaver said to do it that way, I have a forced air furnace in the house. The pump itself doesn't use squat for electricity. Its a 3 speed Armstrong that came with it.

 

[John D]

I'm glad I did it, what I meant was I'm not sure its tuned as good as it could be. I don't know why its spiking so high after the blower shuts off.

Glad I did the Ranco mod too, its maintaining temps more consistent now and hasn't boiled over. It's alot drier in the back of the unit with the DHW sealed, I haven't done the steam vent mod yet, I haven't used much water since I sealed the DHW cover. Mine sits level, but the vent has a slight upward angle, that may help.

My pump is running on demand, not sure if this is ideal or not. Shaver said to do it that way, I have a forced air furnace in the house. The pump itself doesn't use squat for electricity. Its a 3 speed Armstrong that came with it.

Why dont you try rewiring the pump to run full time for a few days,and see if that helps reduce the spiking.Like you said it doesnt use much for electric,give it a shot. Also,did you seal your blower to flange area,you seen the pic if mine,it was horrible. It seems you may have air getting in your boiler,from you posting you only needed your air door 1/4 open before, I'd do some checks to see if one of your doors is leaking ,or somehow you've got another place for the fire to get air from.When my door shuts,the temp goes up 1 degree usually,then the fire literally goes out,and it doesnt move up at all after that.

 

[ngzcaz]

I think John is right on the money by suggesting the pump runs 24/7. Seems impossible to maintain a steady water temp without movement of the water all the time. Nicest part is that its a n/c suggestion.

No one so far has responded whether these new draft motors and t stats are having a positive or negative effect on wood consumption. This question was posed a few days ago. Probably because only a few so far have done so. I can see it going either way or a wash... if I could get a 10 to 15 degree swing I'd be satisfied with the stock unit.

It seems the most important thing to accomplish is to maintain a steady temp and have it come on and off as its supposed to. I havent seen a post yet that extolls the virtue of the stock thermostat. To that end, what kind of t stats are on the other units and where are they placed ?

opcorn:

 

[fletcher0780]

Ben gave me a price of $165 for an actual ash drawer, not sure if that would be easier for any of you.

I've been mixing a bit of coal in lately and found that without the shaker grate and firebrick I'm having some issues. The coal seems to burn awesome, but then it melts into a big slab and blocks of air coming from under the grate, chocking the fire out (usually after a few days). I've also noticed if you let the ashes or coals build up from burning just wood, you can also choke out the air. Has anyone considered a type of bypass pipe that would carry air from the ash pan up above the fire? Would this create a secondary burn chamber? I have found that if I rake all the coals around and use the corner of the hoe to dig a little hole above the grate, then load the wood, I get a very hot blue "blow torch" like flame shooting up through the floor to ignite the wood on top. This is why you can burn almost anything in the boiler.

Regarding wood consumption and the ranco/damper mod, I can't tell if I'm using more or less, but I no longer have boiling problems or a 30* shift in water temperature. I think the other mods I have planned will lower my wood use and compliment these mods. I can tell you that the older woodmaster and hardy boilers use a manual 2 stage (on/off) honeywell probe type aquastat to control their damper/blowers. http://www.patriot-supply.com/products/showitem.cfm/8062 Cb uses this one http://www.dwyer-inst.com/Products/Product.cfm?Group_ID=125&Product_ID=289&sPageName=Ordering
which is pretty cool because it's LED and you can mount it in a box on the outside of your boiler, but need to buy the probe separate and costs more than the Ranco. I have heard of Hardy owners ditching their factory aquastat and installing a ranco to gain the digital control and temperature readout.

 

[ngzcaz]

I'm chuckling at the $ 165 for the true ash pan. If someone has one I'd like an evaluation of same. The " ash pan " cant be any higher than opening of the door. Unfortunately the depth of the ash BIN :censored: is significantly deeper which means even if you manage to get it out you'll be taking a much smaller load than the actual capacity of the pan. How one is able to angle the pan and drag it up the lip remains to be seen. Short and sweet the original design is a screw up. Why the lip is even there is beyond my reasoning. If it was flat I wouldnt bother saying anything about it because I'd just make up my own pan but as it is they really handcuffed you.

The bypass you speak of might work well in conjunction with the airflow from the bottom but thats not my area of knowledge. Fires normally like to burn from the bottom up although I think CB's have a side air flow to theirs. I think Crown Royal have a dual setup, flow from the bottom and top. And all are selling well so they all work. The REAL interesting part to me would be an efficiency test for all the OWB's ( not the new generation of gassifiers ) and see what the differences are.

The old Surdiac coal stoves had a raker much like the poker we got with the Shavers, idea was to rake the burnt coals and have them fall to the bottom. Seemed to work fine for a friend of mine but somehow seemed like extra work and potential problems especially with bad coal.


:greenchainsaw:

 

[mistergreentree]

Here's my version of the steam fix...a "t" and cap. I wanted to be able to drain the water down so I can add chemicals through the pipe if I ever needed to without having to take off the steam fix each time. I used a funnel with tube attached and stick it in to the water jacket....works good. Thanks for all the ideas guys!

 

[ngzcaz]

Interesting.. I'm guessing you fill it about halfway up and then you can peer in from the top. Thats a great idea now if anyone knows where to get clear pipe and a T I'll put it on tomorrow.

This thread is a bit long but here's a item for thought. Another thread seems to a have lot of guys w/excess ashes at this time of the year ( include me ) Raking to the front is ok but I think I'm going to find a warm day ( April ? ) and do a much better job. Much of the ash is in the rear making the wood tilt upward when I load it. There's also considerable ash on the sides. Not bad in the middle where the grates ( when I throw them in they kind of knock the rest of the ash in the pan )

Next year I'm going to cut my wood only slightly longer than the grates so the rear should be ok for quite some time. On the sides I'm thinking of making a truly rounded steel piece ( one for each side ) so it forces the ashes to fall in the grates. As it is now the bottom is mostly flat. Apparently at least one manufacturer has already incorporated this in the design. It would hold slightly less wood on the sides but shouldnt be enough be make a big difference. This would be free standing so removal would be easy if necessary. I certainly dont want this to be a CB type stove when I'm getting a faceful of ashes when removing with a shovel on a lit fire...:censored:

 

[John D]

I wanted to post an update here,since I've been running the Ranco aquastat and blower mod over a week now.I highly recommend both of them together.My Shaver is like a different beast with these 2 mods.It holds temperature perfectly,I have the temp set at 179,and a 5 degree differential.I can go slightly lower,but my hot water recovery is affected at certain times.It does burn a little less wood at 175 on 170 off,thats the lowest it performs well at.I haven't had a minutes problems since the mods,and the nice thing is that with the blower running and the damper door fully open now,it easily burns the wood right down without falling behind with the last few logs.Also recovery is very fast now,where as before it could have taken hours to recover if all the zones were calling.
A big thank you to Fletcher and Dlav for them both taking the time to help by showing there mods,posting pics,and offering help.
This summer I am going to strip the OWB and get it spray foam insulated,top to bottom,and possibly build a better fully insulated door for it.I think those 2 changes will save me a lot of wood,and make the OWB perform better.I am burning a lot of seasoned Locust,and I gotta say this OWB burns cleaner than my neighbors indoor stoves if the wood is totally dry. The first pic is with blower on today,modded blower door ,2nd with it idling with modded damper closed. You can see my makeshift temporary wood shed i built for $40.I got what i think is about 3+ cord of wood in there.Its 24ft long,6 ft wide,and has 2 rows of 30-36" long logs about 5-6ft high.I'm not good at estimating wood volume,but its 3 cord minimum,could be over 4.

 

[blakey]

Good job, persistance pays off. Now you can weld your name on the front of it.

 

[John D]

Good job, persistance pays off. Now you can weld your name on the front of it.

I knew I should have just built one myself,but i thought a "proven unit with a thick firebox" would be better. By the time im done I may just do that,wouldnt be hard to waterjet it out on my brothers flowjet either.