Side work

[KentuckySawyer]

Don't stretch the metaphor too far...anyway, no, if they find money in public, it is up to their conscience what they do with it.

Explain how you deal with this issue, KS. Not finding cash,,,side jobs.

To be honest, I haven't had to deal with employees doing side work. I've only been "the boss" for a year or so and don't have any full time employees yet. I can certainly appreciate your perspective as a larger business owner though. I was offered a position with a local company as a consulting arborist and eventually as a manager, and it that role I wouldn't have done "side work" since it would be an obvious conflict of interest. But I would want a cut on customers I brought in.

Years ago when I was a meager brush dragger/climber in another's employment, I don't think I (or many guys I worked with) would have cared for your "windshield" policy, but never solicited side work. On the other hand, my boss was a greedy, lying, weasel, who would NEVER give an employee a lousy dime for selling extra work. He inadvertently "trained" his workers to be disloyal and bitter towards him. Quite the opposite of your 10% offer.

I'll reserve further comments on your policy for a few years... when I'm running a couple crews.

 

[John464]

Right, right properlly scheduled. Don't get me wrong I'am not throwing away work. What I'm doing is giving work to my guys. Instead of pushing them to do 4 jobs in one day I give them the oppurtunity to make some cash and see what time costs. I tell them " It's a two hour job for two guys. You can make $150.00 just for half saturday morning.". Every Monday I hear " I don't know what you were thinking it was 3 hours door to door.". So of course I ask why so long. Then I hear about the dull saw, no bar oil, 20 minute coffee break looking at the neighbors trees. Of course, none of these are issues when there're on my clock.So the work gets done, customer is happy, guys made some cash, and learned why I'm always yelling about the little things.

A few things to consider

if your help satisfies the customer on their time. what makes you think that for a larger job the customer will call you back? if you allow your employees to do side jobs you then have employees with a side business, that is normally cheaper than you and can and will cut you out of future work

you are also letting the customer down. a customer places value on a business to take care of them in all aspects of tree work. if you make like you are too bigtime for their small work it shows you don't value their needs/trees


another thing to remember. if the job doesnt go as smoothly as your customer is use to with it's normal level of servicve from your company, by whom the recommendation/referral came from your business. this stems as a reflection from you, not good.

I once had a guy who worked for me part time. I wasn't working him over the winter, but he kept calling every week to see if I had any work for him. I got sick of hearing him call. so I gave him a small job I didnt really want to do. Days after he did the job for my customer. Guess who gets a call? me. Customer was furious. My ex-employee took a deposit. Ran off with her money, never came back to finish the job and she asked if I could help. Now not only did I look like an ??????? for setting that job up it now became a problem I had to deal with, because I care about all my customers. I call his house, his wife picks up. Tell me he has run away, left her, and ran off with all her money too and has a drug problem. I never did get ahold of him and I havent had a call back from the lady who just wanted a small tree job done.

Lessons learned = employees never will do side work and remain to work for me. Anyone who doesn't follow this philosophy, will eventually when it comes apparent that it wasn't a good idea.

 

[TreeLady]

I have one question for all the anti sidework guys; do you feel you are stealing from the employee if he or she uses any of their own equipment to make you money?

We also provide all equipment, plus raingear, uniforms, sunscreen...whatever we can. We pay for them to get the training for certification. Anything they need to do their job we will provide. Sometimes guys want to use their own saddles...if they were to damage their saddle while working for us of course it would be our responsibility to replace it.

On the other hand, my boss was a greedy, lying, weasel, who would NEVER give an employee a lousy dime for selling extra work. I'll reserve further comments on your policy for a few years... when I'm running a couple crews.

Good point. It all comes down to respect. We know our guys could make cash on the side, so we try to make it less attractive. They would rather get $50 for 5 seconds, giving our number to their kids coach then get their hourly to do the work. They get some extra cash and don't have to spend more time away from their family.

It is our job to have work for the guys to do, and the money to pay them each week. If they are out trying to grab up all the side jobs they can, they are making it harder for us to keep them employed. Essentially they are working against their own raise.

My point in this thread is that the side job thing hurts smaller companies. The big ones arn't as affected. So, if you love big business and want to see all the little guys fail...screw your boss go get all the side work you can.

 

[nitwit dolt]

It comes down to the employees. My guys know that the $27,000. I'm paying them is better than $400.00 for one Saturday. My customers hire me to do the work. If they are simply looking for the lowest price, let them have it. Bid hunters rarely turn into repeat customers. Having my guys do it on the side frees up the schedule for more important work and still brings in money. I realize that there are many sides to this coin, and that it can require more attention than I'd like to but I find it to be a win win situation.

 

[clearance]

Treeco-the rat/informant who shines above everyone in rightousness, I have asked you many times now on this thread (NIckrosis said I was out of control for this) have you ever been paid in cash and not declared it? Have you ever?Now you have brought it up,answer. I just want to see you lie or tell the truth.

 

[nitwit dolt]

Before we get carried away with this. I do run a fully certified, fully licensed, and fully insured company. I, in no way, condone any of the activities you claim. My point is simply that side work is a good way for me to take advantage of one aspect of my company. Customers who percieve lower pricing by paying in cash. My prices are set by my expenses, just like everybody else. My original point was that a $400.00 job is difficult at best. My pricing is $60.00 a man hour based on a three man crew. So that job must be done in 3 hours ( I know the math isn't perfect, but I like to get something for chipper time, disposal fees, Cabling gear, etc.). So by the time they load up the truck, get to the job, cleanup, and get to the next job 3 hours isn't realistic. Just my take on my situation. Are there many ways to make this work? Sure, smaller crew, route schedule (lower travel time), lining up similiar jobs ( all flops w/ no clean-up ), these all work. One of the other things I do is let the crew do the work on there own. These are a special situations that fit a certain criteria. Just like any Boss, I set specific rules for my guys. They know where the line is and what happens if they cross it. My share of these situatioins usually goes to all those expenses you mentioned that Legitmate tree companies face.

 

[coveredinsap]

Anyone who is anti-sidework is forgetting what it was like when they were first starting out.

Regardless of the trade, everyone did sidework when they were first getting started, whether they want to admit it now or not. And anyone saying anything to the contrary is either a saint, a liar, or a hypocrite...take your pick. Sad but true.

Here in California, in order to get a contractor's license you had to do a certain amount of work 'on your own' to qualify. Since you couldn't get a license even if you wanted one to do that work on your own, you were forced to do the work without a license in order to gain enough 'experience' on your own to qualify for a license. And since you didn't have a license you couldn't get liability insurance or worker's comp. You're stuck in limbo-land...a catch-22 grey area that everyone experiences in their quest to go legitimate whether they admit it or not. It's the dirty little secret of every legitimate contractor on the planet.

And here's the funny part. If they do somehow (as unlikely as that is) qualify for 'sainthood' by never having actually done any sidework themselves to quailfy for their license, then they lied about their experience on their application to get said licence...and the license was acquired under false pretenses. Funny, eh?

 

[userdude]

Took down two pines today, 4 hrs. total, customer responsible for clean up. Made just shy of what I make during a 40 hr. work week for the co.
The funny thing is that our forester is the one who got me the work...oh, and I used the company saw.
You naysayers will never stop the buzzin'. Find something more productive to devote your energy.

 

[1I'dJak]

the saga continues...I work my bag off for my employer... i basically have supplied my own gear...saddle, ropes, handsaw... and now a whoopee sling and a block cuz my employer just isn't into buying ???? to make my life easier... i haven't received a raise or any compensation for this... i make $20.00 an hour and we don't get overtime...just cash if we go over 40/week... I have taught myself to spurless climb with no help from my boss... i have been climbing only a little over a year but have climbed some trees a 10yr vet couldn't do...living in victoria where a crappy house in the crappy part of town costs over 300,000 grand... my wages aren't enough for the effort i put in...things get tight sometimes...i do cash jobs, mostly in my hometown area hundreds of clicks away....have done some here as well...its the only way i can justify staying in the business that i like...plus i started my own busines so i could write off the $4000.00 i've dumped into gear that i use to make my boss money...if i didn't do buzzies i'd probably totally go on my own and compete with my boss and the other multitude of companies...he'd be out a climber, and a guy who doesn't freak out, do drugs, or show up hung over (which seems prevalent in the industry)...plus i come from a small town and hate the litigisnous of people in the big smoke...especially in the u.s... do a job...get some money...don't ??????? well sue people for something that's my responsibility....if its between two fellas with no involvment from big brother...great...buzzies keep the little guys going...

 

[jmack]

Jmack, are you questioning whether or not I run a "legit" business?? For your info I am in CNY.

no and ny is a big place

 

[jmack]

It comes down to the employees. My guys know that the $27,000. I'm paying them is better than $400.00 for one Saturday. My customers hire me to do the work. If they are simply looking for the lowest price, let them have it. Bid hunters rarely turn into repeat customers. Having my guys do it on the side frees up the schedule for more important work and still brings in money. I realize that there are many sides to this coin, and that it can require more attention than I'd like to but I find it to be a win win situation.

13.50/hr?

 

[jmack]

We also provide all equipment, plus raingear, uniforms, sunscreen...whatever we can. We pay for them to get the training for certification. Anything they need to do their job we will provide. Sometimes guys want to use their own saddles...if they were to damage their saddle while working for us of course it would be our responsibility to replace it.



Good point. It all comes down to respect. We know our guys could make cash on the side, so we try to make it less attractive. They would rather get $50 for 5 seconds, giving our number to their kids coach then get their hourly to do the work. They get some extra cash and don't have to spend more time away from their family.

It is our job to have work for the guys to do, and the money to pay them each week. If they are out trying to grab up all the side jobs they can, they are making it harder for us to keep them employed. Essentially they are working against their own raise.

My point in this thread is that the side job thing hurts smaller companies. The big ones arn't as affected. So, if you love big business and want to see all the little guys fail...screw your boss go get all the side work you can.

no one loves da big biz and little guys will never fail every one is getting heated about this when 12 pages back the guy is trying to make a few extra bucks and is just looking for some advice, how bout doing the best job we can as professionals and realize side work is a reality in all careers

 

[Treeman14]

13.50/hr?

I think that's minimum wage in CT.

 

[wradman]

Hi

boy have i missed alot in the last few days
good think i'm going out of town again
the productive channel i started to learn from has turned into a political debate.

 

[xtremetrees]

lol clearance!opcorn:

 

[xtremetrees]

Treeco-the rat/informant who shines above everyone in rightousness, I have asked you many times now on this thread (NIckrosis said I was out of control for this) have you ever been paid in cash and not declared it? Have you ever?Now you have brought it up,answer. I just want to see you lie or tell the truth.

Im still ROFLMAO this guys really is funny

 

[xtremetrees]

Clearance everytime I read it I'm still laffing.

aww treeco dont feel so bad were all human beings I'm think your dad was a cop or sumpin.

Beings you wanna police everyone like you do.. I wonder how many guys have died because of the lack of information they got here because they was afraid to post because of you huh you ever wonder about the noob perfect one?

 

[TreeLady]

I wonder how many guys have died because of the lack of information they got here because they was afraid to post because of you huh you ever wonder about the noob perfect one?

There are newbies afraid of TreeCo but they still have the b@!!s to climb a tree, or cut one down?

 

[xtremetrees]

Hey lissen it take alot to post pics of your work and your gear and to appear inept, especially for a treeman were the most aggressive of the lot and the most subtle we dont take critizem very well tree lady. We actually very sensitive, thats why we climbed to the top to get away from it all I think....

Yearrr I'm just waiting on Treeseers topped pears, why dont you post pics of yourrrenn,

Tomm pics of a de- vinning job today I spent 4 hrs on it and only went up about 15 feet. I expect another 6 hrs of spikeless devinning and then hanging lights. Youll like um post um 2morrow.

My point is I want to encourge a learning atmostphere here. It can be life saving I have to remember that no matter the ethics or hypiocracy were only human jesus or muhammod only set out for us ideals that of course Ill never attain.

 

[TreeLady]

My point is I want to encourge a learning atmostphere here. It can be life saving I have to remember that no matter the ethics or hypiocracy were only human jesus or muhammod only set out for us ideals that of course Ill never attain.

Well said. I agree. I hope I didn't offend your delicate sensibilities. It's just hard for me to imagine a guy willing to climb 60 feet up in a tree being afraid of anything let alone someone posting on a blog on the internet.:biggrinbounce2: