Steel cable or synthetic dyneema type rope for a winch?

[KiwiBro]

Synthetic is stronger, lighter, gets more on the drum, and is easier to work with. Steel handles being draged around dirts/sand/stumps/rocks far better.

Well, that's what I am lead to believe anyway.

There'll be jobs where it may just have to dragged in the mud and over occasional unforgiving terrain. When I see winch ropes sold with webbing covers to guard against abrasion and sand, it makes me wary of rope.

Could anyone with experience with both advise their preferences and why please? Thanks in advance.

 

[dave k]

You have been given good info but a couple of points if you keep the synth rope clean i.e. give it a jet wash regular they are not that fragile. The problem comes when sand/grit works it's way into the fibre of the rope and as tension is applied the grit acts like tiny knives in the rope.
If you have a failure it just drops to the ground however you don't really get any warning unlike wire rope which will quite often "speak" to you before failing but of course it is a messy event when a wire rope gives up ! Wire rope also has a rope core which if you start to see through the wire that is an indication that it is overloaded and should be replaced.
I would rather keep a synth rope clean than take chances with wire where poss but dependant on the winch being used you may not have a choice I'm thinking of some types of skidding winches which would not be ok with synth.
As one of my work pals found out when you cut through your synth rope you just splice it together and carry on !
I've used both a great deal and from a saftey point of veiw and the weight, or lack of it !, synth gets my vote

 

[imagineero]

if it's your winch and you are operating it then go synthetic. It's really nice to use, and I find it a lot easier to spool off the drum as long as your drum winding system doesnt over tension it.. If other people will be using the winch then go steel. The synthetic doesnt have to be super expensive either, you can get some great deals on this stuff on ebay, and as the above poster said it is spliceable. It's worthwhile putting at least a 10 foot chain on the end of the synthetic to cop most of the abuse. Otherwise pretty soon you are chopping that mangled frayed first 6 feet of your synthetic rope off, then another, then another....

Shaun

 

[KiwiBro]

Thanks for your replies.

I don't work with anyone I can't trust with my gear and my well-being, so the only clueless monkey running the winch will be me ;-). A few extra feet of chain or wire cable for the ground friction stuff is good preservation. Any of you running this through self-releasing blocks and if so what are you using to trigger the release?

Have any of you used synth' for a skyline? Would it wear too quickly compared to steel?

 

[imagineero]

Not sure what you mean by self releasing blocks....

The main thing to be careful off with that synthetic stuff is heat, it has a low melting point. An exhaust will easily melt it through, and same for friction. The other thing is the abrasion, it picks easily. When under load, the weave tightens up and the rope gets nice and hard, but not under load little things will pick strands out of it.

Shaun

 

[lfnh]

There were a couple of threads in past year or two about Amsteel synthetic. Might try a pm to Slamm about this.
This link might be worth a read.

 

[fdoberman]

Synthetic is definitely the way to go IF you're the guy paying for the rope and will be operating the winch yourself. There is also a lot to be said for synthetic when the winch will be operated by employees, synthetic stretches and prevents mistakes from becoming major events, just look at what's on the winch drums of most line trucks in the US for proof.

Just remember, to remove the hook when you strip the line and take it to the laundromat. Don't put Simple Green in the wash machine either.

 

[KiwiBro]

.

Not sure what you mean by self releasing blocks....
They are snatch blocks that allow the line to jump off under load. Great for redirects or getting some elevation without a skyline (although a pain for multiple hauling as you always have to manually re-route the line back on them for the next turn). Ones like these:
Self-Releasing 4" Snatch Block - Snatch Blocks - Labonville Inc.

but how to trigger the release without tearing the synth rope would be the issue. Ordinarily, the choker sliders can release the line off the block but the first obstruction the block is going to see is the eye of the synth' line. there's a metal type of lug that can be tightened against wire rope and act as the trigger if the block needs to be released before the choker sliders get to it, but I'm not sure if it could be used on the synth' line before the line terminates at the eye so I'm wondering what people using dyneema or amsteel use to trigger the release, unless that's too much of a risk and as such means it's not possible to use the self-releasing blocks with synth' line?


The main thing to be careful off with that synthetic stuff is heat, it has a low melting point. An exhaust will easily melt it through, and same for friction.
I believe the first wind on the drum should have a heat shielding sheath, just to be safe?

The other thing is the abrasion, it picks easily. When under load, the weave tightens up and the rope gets nice and hard, but not under load little things will pick strands out of it.

Thanks for that. Plenty of things in the bush like picking so I guess it's just a matter of doing one's best to keep it off the ground and out of the slash as much as possible when dragging it back out for the next turn?

Shaun

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

Synthetic is good for the weight but it will not take abuse as well as wire rope. There is several dozen types of wire rope some are better then others. Roll swagged cable is a good compromise between synthetic and traditional winch wire rope.

 

[Slamm]

When cable skidding, which I try to not do very much I will only use Amsteel Blue. I have a 540B Deere Skidder and I likeD to use either a 9/16 or 5/8 swagged cable in the past. I will no longer use steel cable as it is a waste of my time and effort, when compared to a synthetic for normal cable skidding.

Synthetic rope can't take as severe of abuse as a steel cable, but I have found that if you go up 1 size in diameter compared to whatever size in steel you were using it offsets this minor issue and you can beat away at it.

Without going into a multipage explain of the benefits, I will just say that less operator fatigue when pulling out the cable is the least of the benefits of synthetic. It is so much easier on the machine's winch and saves so much time when operating the winch it isn't funny, as synthetic doesn't care how crow's nested it is, it just pulls out and coils up without any issues associated with the mess that is involved with proper steel cable operation.

Search around I have written abunch about is somewhere, as I have used it for years, and find that the pro's far outweigh the con's.

For what its worth, I don't know if others can get it for as cheap as I can, but I get mine from Paducah Supply (Rigging) in Paducah, KY. I don't think there is any place else that has it cheaper. Thought there was once, but it wasn't cheaper for me, LOL.

My experience,

Sam

 

[KiwiBro]

Thank you.
Was it these guys:
Rigging Supplies, Wire Rope Slings, Chains, Tie Downs, Winches - Paducah Rigging, Inc.
?

When cable skidding, which I try to not do very much I will only use Amsteel Blue. I have a 540B Deere Skidder and I likeD to use either a 9/16 or 5/8 swagged cable in the past. I will no longer use steel cable as it is a waste of my time and effort, when compared to a synthetic for normal cable skidding.

Synthetic rope can't take as severe of abuse as a steel cable, but I have found that if you go up 1 size in diameter compared to whatever size in steel you were using it offsets this minor issue and you can beat away at it.

Without going into a multipage explain of the benefits, I will just say that less operator fatigue when pulling out the cable is the least of the benefits of synthetic. It is so much easier on the machine's winch and saves so much time when operating the winch it isn't funny, as synthetic doesn't care how crow's nested it is, it just pulls out and coils up without any issues associated with the mess that is involved with proper steel cable operation.

Search around I have written abunch about is somewhere, as I have used it for years, and find that the pro's far outweigh the con's.

For what its worth, I don't know if others can get it for as cheap as I can, but I get mine from Paducah Supply (Rigging) in Paducah, KY. I don't think there is any place else that has it cheaper. Thought there was once, but it wasn't cheaper for me, LOL.

My experience,

Sam

 

[Slamm]

Thank you.
Was it these guys:
Rigging Supplies, Wire Rope Slings, Chains, Tie Downs, Winches - Paducah Rigging, Inc.
?

Yes, that is them. I deal with Jay, mostly.

One thing about the Amsteel is you can really load a lot more of it onto a spool than a steel cable. I load it and then go pull some of your bigged logs. The rope will stretch a little more and get really tight and small. My 540B's usually can handle a 100-110ft steel cable and you can easily fit 130-150 foot of 3/4" Amsteel onto it, once you have pulled a few good sized logs with it. I don't treat my synthetic any different because its synthetic and not steel and I get similar life out of it and we pull a lot of big hardwoods. We stand the skidder on its butt several times a day without breakage, what more could you ask for, its stronger than the skidder is.
The other nice thing is once you wear out the first say 50' by cutting and retying or breaking and retying, you can add that old 50' to a newer purchase of say 80' and then be back at 130' for only the cost of the 80' newer rope.

Compare this marvel to a steel cable in which once you kink or fray a steel cable the whole thing is ruined and you just throw the whole thing away.

I know a guy that badly kinked the 60' mark of a brand new steel cable in the first day, had to work with that for the rest of the week and then it broke there, bad deal. With synthetic you just cut and resplice it and no big deal, don't lose any strength or anything with the synthetic. I can splice the centers on a new rope to an old rope and you could never find where I spliced it by the next day. You will not do this with a steel rope.

I like Amsteel so much and think it is so smart to use, that if someone would buy my steel cables for me, I wouldn't use them, as they just waste too much time and are very hard on the machine.

Thats what I've been doing.

Sam

 

[Iguide]

if it's your winch and you are operating it then go synthetic. It's really nice to use, and I find it a lot easier to spool off the drum as long as your drum winding system doesnt over tension it.. If other people will be using the winch then go steel. The synthetic doesnt have to be super expensive either, you can get some great deals on this stuff on ebay, and as the above poster said it is spliceable. It's worthwhile putting at least a 10 foot chain on the end of the synthetic to cop most of the abuse. Otherwise pretty soon you are chopping that mangled frayed first 6 feet of your synthetic rope off, then another, then another....

Shaun

How do you put a chain at the end that will still wind on the winch?
Thanks?