Stihl ms500i with a .404 chain?

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I've only had a couple of saws that i knew i wasn't going to own for very long. Not that they were problematic, or anything like that. They were one's that i ran into such a good deal that i was about guaranteed to make money on them. As for the 500i, it seems to be the king of the heap of the 80cc displacement saws. A quick google search of my 066 says that with my dual port muffler cover it's supposed to be 7.8 H.P. a fair amount more than a stock 500i @ 6.7 H.P.

My 461 (6.0 HP) runs the 32" B&C just fine. It's not like the 0.404 is so much bigger. I've little doubt the 461 could pull a 24" B&C with a 0.404 chain just fine. The 500i with a 28" 0.404 B&C seems like a logical step up in capability.
 
.404 is for big saws.

I run .404 RM on my ported 395 and ported 3120 for production cutting and milling because I get logs dropped off and they have some sand in the bark. .404 puts a lot of load on a saw, but it has a bigger cutting tooth which stays sharp longer (especially the semi-chisel).

So you “can” run .404 on a 500i, I‘m just not sure why you’d want to.



.404” is indeed “slower” than 3/8”.

I was on a .404” kick at one time for my 90cc saws but I’ve scaled that back/ swapped the tips on a few bars to 3/8” & learned better.

I’ve got (1) 12mm bar left, 36”, that will probably stay .404” just for stumping dirty butts.

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This 41” bar now has 3/8” half skip on it rather than the .404” full skip. Much smoother as well as faster.

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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
.404” is indeed “slower” than 3/8”.

I was on a .404” kick at one time for my 90cc saws but I’ve scaled that back/ swapped the tips on a few bars to 3/8” & learned better.

I’ve got (1) 12mm bar left, 36”, that will probably stay .404” just for stumping dirty butts.

This 41” bar now has 3/8” half skip on it rather than the .404” full skip. Much smoother as well as faster.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Sounds like an experienced and thoughtful response. I'm starting to think the 500i can wait. Maybe the 400 (is that suppose to have EFI?) as a replacement for the 290 that is now on its 10th year of service. Another year or two it will likely be ready for retirement.
 
My 461 (6.0 HP) runs the 32" B&C just fine. It's not like the 0.404 is so much bigger. I've little doubt the 461 could pull a 24" B&C with a 0.404 chain just fine. The 500i with a 28" 0.404 B&C seems like a logical step up in capability.
Oh, i do have to admit all of mine is all full comp, and all hardwoods. So all of this might be useless to you, if your running semi or full skip and cutting softwood. And i'm only cutting firewood, so yeah that 3 lbs. could be a deal breaker for someone carrying it all day long.
 
My 461 (6.0 HP) runs the 32" B&C just fine. It's not like the 0.404 is so much bigger. I've little doubt the 461 could pull a 24" B&C with a 0.404 chain just fine. The 500i with a 28" 0.404 B&C seems like a logical step up in capability.
Absolutely correct in my mind , unless Stihl bottom ends are inferior to my 50 + yr old Pioneer Girls ! :laughing:
 
I have a 32" .404 bar for my 066. It works pretty good, and i think the semi chisel's ability to stay sharp is worth some cutting performance. I had a 32' .404 bar on an Echo 800P it was more than it wanted. I wouldn't put it on anything smaller than a 90cc saw.
Apparently you have not run any Pioneers in your time. ;)
 
Here are some of my thoughts from my timber felling days in Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Montana, and Washington.
The breaking point for switching to .404 from .375 (3/8ths back in the day-70s and 80s into the 90s) on the "old school" Husqvarnas I logged with was just about 80cc's. I ran both chain sizes on stock H 480s with 28" bars. 3/8ths was preferable.
The 281s that replaced the 480s had better be ported to thrive with .404 on a 30" bar.
Stock or woods ported 288s handled the .404 on a 30" with authority. I preferred the wider kerf of the .404, finding I got stuck in a pinching cut significantly less often than with 3/8ths chain. Over the course of a day, week, or cutting season, those fewer minutes and less aggravation wedging a pinched bar out of a misjudged bucking cut or rotating limbing cut add up to many more dollars when you're busheling.
The trees were softwoods-ponderosa pine, Doug fir, white or grand fir, Englemann spruce, western white pine, sub alpine fir, tamarack or western larch, lodgepole pine, quaking aspen. The two extremes in my mind are Doug fir for forgiving the faller by clearing chips well and limbs jumping out of the way, and Englemann spruce for waiting to the last second to "tell" you what direction their limbs are going to twist and spring. Spruce Sucks.
I can't say how any of this relates to the new fangled, zippy 500i. Some day, for grins and giggles, I'll stick a .404 bar and chain on a 372. Nah. They're fine pulling .375.
 
Here are some of my thoughts from my timber felling days ... I preferred the wider kerf of the .404, finding I got stuck in a pinching cut significantly less often than with 3/8ths chain. Over the course of a day, week, or cutting season, those fewer minutes and less aggravation wedging a pinched bar out of a misjudged bucking cut or rotating limbing cut ... .
The above description sums up this firewood hack’s experience which is the main reason I have kept the .404 on my old 82MAC. Chain speed isn’t everything.
Ron
 
I wish the 880 didn't have the large bar mounts. I recently picked up a 24" 0.404 and would love to run it on the 461.

And I thought the 500i was suppose to be this new lightweight powerful saw. Is it just that it is new and has the novelty of EFI? I might have to wait and find one I can operate. Most peeps here buy new saws like I buy socks. If it isn't for decorating the shop wall space, it is for porting and bragging and reselling a year later, when there is something else being hyped that becomes a "must have".
The 500i is no better in any way than a Dolmar 7900, which was designed more than 20 years ago.
 
.404 is for big saws.

I run .404 RM on my ported 395 and ported 3120 for production cutting and milling because I get logs dropped off and they have some sand in the bark. .404 puts a lot of load on a saw, but it has a bigger cutting tooth which stays sharp longer (especially the semi-chisel).

So you “can” run .404 on a 500i, I‘m just not sure why you’d want to.
I've cut professionally almost all my adult life and not everything makes so much sense.
In practise you may not give it a second thought. Many things to block out and other things to concentrate on. Though, in discussion, some may think what 'you' (I) are saying is crazy or even breaking the laws of physics at times.
Probably more often most say nothing but they p go away in disbelief.

As I said above, I don't have any experience with 404 chain.
I saw Redbull compare 4 'out of box' chains on here some yrs ago. He said the 404 seemed to hold an edge longer. I seem to hear that now in most 404 chain discussions. I even recall passing that on to someone in a thread as to what people have said.
In his case, with a mixed bag of different brands, pitch, cutter intervals and with likely some different grinds. I remember one of the 404 chains being a huge percent slower. Let's assume it was only due to less aggressive cutting angles so then that would give it two reasons to last longer. (as it's also cutting a good percentage less per hour, as well along with increased durability with grind angles.
Not a very equal test in terms of 404 lasting longer in general in this case but stayed true to what he was testing and that was new out of the box chains.
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So if I hand file two chains . One being 3/8 and the other 404?
I realized they use different file sizes so one tooth may be slightly higher or the bigger file is to help reduce the pull of the wider cutter'...or both..? (Maybe even more than one difference between the two companies chains mentioned.)
Stihl would be 13/64 vs 7/32 = 1/64 difference
Oregon: 7/32 vs 1/4 = 1/32 difference between 3/8 & 404 chain

If I filed a 404 with a 13/64 file and a 3/8 chain with a 7/32 file and tested them each for volume then would the story eventually change?
(Let's hear from all you 404 guys. More so you 404 semi-c guys.)
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You say above: "it is a bigger cutting tooth which stays sharper longer"

I will take it as you were being a bit vague.
It would have to be all to do with the shape of the working corner?
All the cutting would be on the leading edge and the little bit of side plate that severs the fibers in a cross cut. (working corner/ working arch)

So what is really going on here?
1) A very different'working arch'
2) very slight difference & a bigger file on 3/8 could give for a more efficient set up
(Faster cutting/volume cut vs sharping cycles)
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Be cool to see a pic of the Stihl 3/8 s-c and the 404 s-chisel,working corner's 'file tracks' from the inside if anyone is up for that one?
I saw images from the outside and they appear to be the same thing. but IDK?
 
To split hairs the 500I has 1 more HP and is almost a pound lighter.
I hadn't thought of a 7900 in years. I bought one back when they first came out and was surprised when I just looked up the specs.
The current 7900 is down on power and up on weight compared to the original version, which was a conservative 6.3HP 14lb 13oz
 
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