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Synthetic Oil

Discussion in 'Chainsaw' started by Dale M, Feb 15, 2018.

  1. Little Al

    Little Al Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I was always led to believe that it was the Brew being an Alkylate based non E rather than a distillate of Crude oil which the chief component is Hydro Carbons bit like synthetic oil Man made rather than Man processed some time back I went to look at a Garden Tractor it was empty of fuel & had a flat batteriy & had not run for the best part of 6 years The only fuel the seller had was a half full 5 litre can of 4 mix he said it had been open North of 5years poured it in the tank fitted batt at a 10 sec crank it fired up & ran The only down side of it to me is cost
     
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  2. ericm979

    ericm979 ArboristSite Operative

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    Synthetic oil is fine at 50:1 or 40:1. It makes less carbon than non synthetic. 100:1 is not appropriate for saws as they run WFO much of the time. I've use synthetic in all my two strokes for 25+ years- saws, dirt bikes, road racers, street bikes. I've had zero failures due to oil and everything comes out looking pretty clean when I tear down a motor. Oil ratios run from 80:1 for water cooled observed trials bikes (very little WFO, especially at my skill level) to 25:1 for road racers. While saws run WFO a lot their HP/displacement is not that high, more like the trials bikes (around .7- .8hp/10cc where my road race RZ350 was more like 1.7hp/10cc). Saws don't need the greater amounts of oil like a road race bike.

    People blame ethanol for all sorts of problems that it doesn't cause. When they first started putting it in gas some fuel system parts suffered. It's been a long time since then and materials have improved. Pump gas went stale and gummed up carbs long before they were putting ethanol in it. Unless you can find E0 at close to the same price as E10 it's not worth getting. The only E0 available here costs about 4x what pump premium costs. It's not worth that to me for chain saws. Same with premixed fuel. I go through enough fuel to keep it relatively fresh, though I add fuel stabilizer just in case. I also dump the fuel out of saws that will be sitting for a while and run their carbs dry.
     
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  3. Pioneer

    Pioneer ArboristSite Operative

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    My uncle has been using Opti oil at 100-1 in his Stihl 024 for over 30 years as a firewood saw, and I can attest that it still runs strong. HOWEVER, he has been warned that he should run a thicker oil mix by a dealer to prevent internal rust when the saw sits unused for a long period, as 100-1 will not have enough oil to properly protect the saw. I don't Opti myself, but have tried Amsoil at 100-1 with no ill effects. What impressed me about Amsoil was how concentrated it was compared to regular dino stuff, you have to make sure you shake up the mix well to distribute the oil properly. If I used a saw commercially, I would probably use a synthetic mixed somewhere between 50-70 to 1, and not worry about internal wear.
     
  4. merc_man

    merc_man Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Ya its still about 9 bucks a can at home depot. Stuff is a little pricyer when ya cross that river.

    Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk
     
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  5. 1Alpha1

    1Alpha1 100% USDA certified abnormality-free.

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    Depends on who's looking for me.....and why.

    I was just going to say the same thing. At our Home Depot, it's about $6.00 a can. If you buy 6 cans, they will give you the "contractor" price. I can't recall the exact amount of discount, but it's pretty good.

    I've heard that HD now carries an off brand of canned fuel. Don't know the name, but it's closer to $5.00 a can from what I have heard.

    Also......if you apply for a credit card @ HD and if you are approved, they will give you a credit voucher for $25.00. The application process takes like two minutes and it's done right at the cash register. You can apply for a total of 5 cards.

    I applied for 4 cards over the course of a week or so. I was approved for all 4. That's $100.009 worth of canned fuel. That's how I started my stock pile of it.

    Presently, I now only have one card that is active. I cancelled the other three long ago.,
     
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  6. Little Al

    Little Al Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Having serviced saws that earn a living for their operators over the past 38 years & can assure you that a saw run with a 50 & north oil mix will suffer more wear than a saw running a 32/40 mix with the same # of hrs run/used you can run 50 & north mix with no apparent problems & many do but a strip & careful check & measure after say between 1500 & 2000 hrs will reveal a difference But if you are comfortable with your mix ratio go for it
     
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  7. sbhooper

    sbhooper Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Some oils such as Amsoil will stand a 100:1 mix, but that does not mean that you need to. I have run Amsoil for years in lots of different stuff and I have run it at 100:1 with no issue, but there is no reason not to stay with the standard 50:1 mix. It is just a bit more insurance against wear. I just run non-ethynol regular in my saws. I have run premium, but I did not notice any performance difference.
     
  8. troylee

    troylee ArboristSite Guru

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    I run canned fuel in my blower and weed eater, but it is mainly for the warranty protection, and the fact that I don't use much fuel in them. Dealers around here check the fuel first thing and if you have canned fuel in it, it makes the rest of the warranty claim go much easier. For my ported saws it is 32:1 nonE fuel only. This is for the extra load they produce on the eternals and the fact that they eat fuel at such a rate that I can't afford to feed them the canned stuff.
     
  9. Dale M

    Dale M ArboristSite Member

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    Yesterday I was in Canadian tire they
    Have true fuel or trufuel for $8.95 a
    Can, choice of 40:1 or 50:1
    I’ll try one of them out, probably 40:1
    And see how that works out.
    DM
     
  10. Bwildered

    Bwildered Addicted to ArboristSite

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    When the cost & health benefits are considered 50:1 mix comes out in front every time, the value of the oil saved over 2000 hrs at a leaner mix in some cases will be more than enough to purchase a new saw at the end of the period, you only get one set of lungs, it pays to look after them .
    Thanski
     
  11. lambs

    lambs Stihl crazy after all these years

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    I run 50 to 1 Stihl synthetic in everything, mixed with E-free gas.

    Puregas.com is the place to go if you need to find ethanol free gas.
     
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  12. 1Alpha1

    1Alpha1 100% USDA certified abnormality-free.

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    Depends on who's looking for me.....and why.

    We finally have a gas station that now sells E-Free gas. It's clear across town, but that's still better than having to drive well out of town to get it.
     
  13. Little Al

    Little Al Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Why do dealers in your area query standard Gas/oil mix all the saws iv'e dealt with are designed & recommended to run on that the fact that they will run on Trufuel & other brands is an aside the main advantage to my knowledge is the longevity of the fuel I cant say Ive ever noticed that saws run better on it than fresh gas oil mix to the standard 32/50/1 mix if it has other gains I have not had any one point them out to me I had a long conversation with a seller/dealer of Aspen fuel & all he could forward that would stand scrutiny was the fuels long shelf life
     
  14. Conquistador3

    Conquistador3 Le Comte de Frou Frou

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    Both Yamabiko and Stihl have been known to use the "poor fuel/oil" excuse to deny warranty jobs to customers. Running canned premix (usually Stihl Motomix) and having a receipt for it to show is usually considered some sort of protection against this behavior.
    Honestly with Stihl Motomix at 4.92€/l before taxes and all the fuel I use every year I prefer to take my chances.
     
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  15. Little Al

    Little Al Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Never come across that where I am another get out clause I suppose There is no way with the amount of fuel mix we use could we afford the price of "Alki "mix but our fuel doesn't sit long enough to go stale All our Gas is E free & we have only had a couple of fuel related failures over 10 saws in the last 25 or so years
     
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  16. Sagetown

    Sagetown Farmer and a STIHL

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    -- - - - - - - E - - FREE - - - The only way to run a saw.:chainsaw:
     
  17. Conquistador3

    Conquistador3 Le Comte de Frou Frou

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    The "bad fuel" clause caused quite a stir on an Italian forum a few years back. In the end Stihl backpedaled and went in full damage control mode, including giving to customers their "amazing" premix oil for free. I have a cardboard box of that junk in the cellar and I'd rather make premix the old way, with straight engine oil, before using it.
    Yamabiko... suffice to say their five years residential warranty is really a five minutes warranty. I pity the dealers who have to tell customers with a straight face they cause an ignition module failure. :confused:

    And rule of thumb is if you get through fuel like Pac-Man gets through energy pills, canned pre-mix is a waste of money.
     
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  18. JTM

    JTM ArboristSite Guru

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    Alkylate fuel should burn cleaner, theoretically.
     
  19. mgr

    mgr ArboristSite Operative

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    40:1 semi synthetic ethanol free gas in my saws.
     
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  20. lambs

    lambs Stihl crazy after all these years

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    Canned fuel has its place, but it is pricey. I have a lot of buddies who are very occasional chainsaw users, and they like it. Long shelf life and no need to worry about whether you mixed it properly. They might buy a half gallon in a year.

    Government agencies love it since it reduces risk of burning up saws.

    In my experience it’s not better fuel and it is not worse fuel than properly mixed E free.
     
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