Tcia & Isa

[lxt]

Did anybody read the Tcia Mag. for july pg 64 accreditation paragraph beside #3?

who do these entities think they are? their gonna lead the fight through lobbying the Govt. & enforce regulations!!!

low paying cash under the table employers. who hasnt done a job under the table let alone pay their employees under the table.

Im legit!!! but every now & then the homeowner pays with cash

so now Tcia & Isa are in bed with OHSA & ANSI? further in the article I like the fact that Cities with an Society of Municipal arborist program must give preference to TCIA accredited companies!(arborist training dont mean squat)

also stated was a tree company gouging a city for $70,000.00 more and proud of it!! BEWARE:Cities, towns, municipalities and suburbs of such sign on with TCIA/ISA and your gonna PAY!!!!

to all you little guys legit or not this should be a warning!!! I was seriously thinking about getting the arborist cert. but now I guess you need to be accredited. Like I said before these entities will make up CERT`s, Programs & other such BS. just to get $$$$ & if they dont get enough people to jump on board they lobby, cheat, lie and scratch the back of a GOVT agency till they make it a law, ordinance, regulation, or other.

Meet your new organized crime outfit TCIA/ISA Union in the making!!

LXT..........:chainsawguy:

 

[Slvrmple72]

I could say something touchy 'bout the trade unions and the construction biz in general but I'm not gonna Sad to see the possible direction this is going but cannot say that I am surprised by it:bang:

 

[mckeetree]

I don't think TCIA does much for the small guy these days. It's big company oriented.

Well, it used to, but now it seems to be geared toward larger companies. When I first joined NAA (TCIA) years ago it was a different organization from what it is now regardless of what they say.

 

[mckeetree]

And while I am still here me and everybody else I know in the the tree care business , and I know a lot of them, think the accreditation deal is a great big load of crap.

 

[Ekka]

Meet your new organized crime outfit TCIA/ISA Union in the making!!

They'll do for the tree business what catholics did for religion. :hmm3grin2orange:

Publish their financials, lets see what their bottom line is.

 

[lxt]

good posts guy`s, for a minute I just thought I was the only one thinking this, I too remember the NAA a totally different organization in deed, a good organization.

I guess; take myself for example, I trained for 5yrs through an apprenticeship, classroom involvement, really wanting to excel in this trade. here years later seeing that Cert`s. may be needed I think ok! I`ll get it!

shazam, now I need to be accredited!! when does the paper(pigskin) stop? and talent & experience pickup and takeover. maybe it wont, I dont know.

just dont like where this trade is going, lets supersize it like wal-mart & do away with the Lil guys.

LXT.................

 

[hornett22]

remember the NRA?

they sold us gun owners out.all the associations do when they get some money in their account.i no longer join or support many of these scams.

 

[Ekka]

You reckon there's any kickbacks and favours going on?

 

[John464]

while i believe that they do provide a great source of knowledge for those in this business I do not care for the mentality that if you are not certified you are beneath those that are not certified. I see it all the time on here, by people like treeser, whom works for the ISA and has hidden interests in their promotion. statements like.... If a certified arborist isn't working on the tree, the tree wasn't pruned correctly. Or don't hire a tree service , you must hire a certified arborist to asses the situation because those tree services have no idea what they are looking at. This mentality is partially what keeps me away from paying the ISA and TCIA yearly fees. The ISA and TCIA are private big businesses, much different than say an electrician's certification that is take at your local trade school.


I myself am not certified and do not feel the need to be. I have certified arborist employees that are great workers, but when it comes time to prune that 100yr old chesnut oak or take down a real hairy leaner over a house with a glass roof, my certified guys are on the ground watching me dance throughout the tree. What does that tell you?

 

[jrparbor04]

i am I.S.A. Certifed Arborist and proud of it,,,that means that i am on top of the latest trends and have reached a very high platform in tree care knowledge and the industry,,,i went to school for trees and i believe i would rather have a Certifed Arborist work on my tree than any yahooooo company out there,,,,i work for a government and the people we serve(the public) are very pleased to know that a Certified Arborist is on hand,,,we have to continually take classes and courses to keep us on our toes in the newest equipment and knowledge in the tree care industry

 

[lxt]

john464, WELL SAID!!

JRparbor04, why does this cert. mean you are at the top of your game? refer to john464`s post. anyone who can read can gain knowledge!!!!

Im not a CA, but ill tell ya I know just as much as most in my area, & more than some. truth is im busy doing the climbing,bucket work on some big ugly thing, I dont have the time to read or the want to pay for a cert. that according to TCIA`s article wont get you jack!! now accredited is in the mix.

I have the arborist books & am licensed by PA dept of Agriculture in pesticide/herbicide application. so as far as knowledge goes!! its attainable by most on here. newest equipment(you state) are you personally operating it? certified to operate it? I & many others on here have worked for the power companies(we`ve ran just about everything out there!!!!!& are certified to do so)

school for trees, high platform? HA!! 20yrs & Ive been up in high platforms thats the real world & im still learning, books get you so far an A+ on the test is nice but hang over the powerlines sport, climb the 150ft ugly fir after the storm......... dont forget your book, the public might think less of you!!

LXT.....................

 

[jrparbor04]

john464, WELL SAID!!

JRparbor04, why does this cert. mean you are at the top of your game? refer to john464`s post. anyone who can read can gain knowledge!!!!

Im not a CA, but ill tell ya I know just as much as most in my area, & more than some. truth is im busy doing the climbing,bucket work on some big ugly thing, I dont have the time to read or the want to pay for a cert. that according to TCIA`s article wont get you jack!! now accredited is in the mix.

I have the arborist books & am licensed by PA dept of Agriculture in pesticide/herbicide application. so as far as knowledge goes!! its attainable by most on here. newest equipment(you state) are you personally operating it? certified to operate it? I & many others on here have worked for the power companies(we`ve ran just about everything out there!!!!!& are certified to do so)

school for trees, high platform? HA!! 20yrs & Ive been up in high platforms thats the real world & im still learning, books get you so far an A+ on the test is nice but hang over the powerlines sport, climb the 150ft ugly fir after the storm......... dont forget your book, the public might think less of you!!

LXT.....................

i am also a public applicator for the state of missouri,,woohoo,,,not a big test,,,i operate everthing we have,,,,climbing,,,bucket truck,,,crane,,,and certified if it pleases you,,,screw the power companies,,,keep that book there buddy,,,you might learn something,,,i am on top of my game,,,you might want to attend classes and/or seminars to keep up on the industry,,,get that certification,,,,you must not be able to get it,,,explains your mood

 

[beowulf343]

i am also a public applicator for the state of missouri,,woohoo,,,not a big test,,,i operate everthing we have,,,,climbing,,,bucket truck,,,crane,,,and certified if it pleases you,,,screw the power companies,,,keep that book there buddy,,,you might learn something,,,i am on top of my game,,,you might want to attend classes and/or seminars to keep up on the industry,,,get that certification,,,,you must not be able to get it,,,explains your mood

How long have you been in the business?

 

[Stumpcutter1]

I was a NRA member for many yrs and thats exactly what they did was sell us out screw them too.and as far as certification fine if you want but of most the companies I know around here me included are not certified.But we sure seem to be able to takedown a tree just fine and a freinds son just became certified but is the worst treeman I know just got his cert so they could use it for a bid on a village job LMAO.Might as well pass another freakin law.All this government seems to do is pass more laws for the rich and take our liberties at the same time this country is in every way wiping out the small guys but that seems to be the trend doesnt it?
life,liberty and pursuit of happiness isnt what it used to be

 

[Dadatwins]

The problem with the ISA and the Certified arbo program is that they will allow anyone with a checkbook to join. You are not required to have ever climbed a tree and can still be called a certified arborist. This has come up many times before and the ISA policy of non-discrimination is the only answer that the ISA gives. I and many others do not agree with the policy. I suggested different CA types to differentiate between climbing arborist and non, but was told it would be to complicated and they want simplicity. As for TCIA coming up with their accrediation program they are also trying to validate there members with a certificate also. The main goal of all these programs is to acheive some sort of a group voice like electricians and plumbers. I hope that long term this will help balance insurance rates and separate the local landscraper/wanna-be-tree-cudder from a professional tree company. Hopefully in time this will allow customers to be more willing to pay a premium price for premium service. When a pipe burst in the house folks call the local licensed plumber and pay whatever it takes. Yet when a tree dies most folks could care less about license, they want cheap. Biggest hurdle is enforcement of both groups rules. There are plenty of Certified arbo out there topping and spiking pruned trees because the bottom line is $$$. If they don't do it someone else will. Both groups turn the other way since it is hard to discipline when you are trying to recruit members which equal $$$. As for TCIA going after the big companies, why not? They need $$$ to keep these programs going and joe pickup truck can't supply enough of it. I look forward to getting higher prices for quality work and am willing to ride the coat-tails of the big companies to achieve that goal. opcorn:

 

[Stumpcutter1]

The problem with the ISA and the Certified arbo program is that they will allow anyone with a checkbook to join. You are not required to have ever climbed a tree and can still be called a certified arborist. This has come up many times before and the ISA policy of non-discrimination is the only answer that the ISA gives. I and many others do not agree with the policy.

thats right certified means you payed them and passed the written test not that you can do the work its total BS means nothing in the end

 

[treeseer]

Yeah that's right--we don't need no stinking organizations, screw em all. Stick it to the man!

Uh, wait, the man is...us! :blush:

I don't want to break up the flow of the group rant here, but this one got a little deep...

people like treeser, whom works for the ISA and has hidden interests in their promotion.

Nope, I don't work for them. I do get paid for writing some things, which comes out to a beginner groundie's pay rate but that's not why I do it. I volunteer to do committee work because I have a blatant interest in the health of both orgs, and I know the only way to change the BIG problems I see with them is to get involved. TCIA does a great job with ANSI standards--you've heard of those?--and keeping that biggest ugliest org of all, the us government, off your back.

statements like.... If a certified arborist isn't working on the tree, the tree wasn't pruned correctly.

Never said that.

Or don't hire a tree service , you must hire a certified arborist to asses the situation because those tree services have no idea what they are looking at.

I may have said words to that effect, because most tree services are removal specialists. But CA's screw up too. Just today I came out of a big red oak I was reducing before I cable it, and the lady across the street had me look at a declining cherry tree that a CA was due to remove today but did a no show. i found a girdling root and had my crew prune it and the branches, saving a lot of $, and the tree

The ISA and TCIA are private big businesses,

Sorry to get the truth in the way of a good story, but the ISA is a nonprofit, very different from a private business.

I have certified arborist employees that are great workers, but when it comes time to prune that 100yr old chesnut oak or take down a real hairy leaner over a house with a glass roof, my certified guys are on the ground watching me dance throughout the tree. What does that tell you?

It tells me that your employees need to learn how to climb better, which means that you need to trust them and train them, if you can. I have 3 certifications and oldschool gear and can outclimb a lot of newschoolers with more gear than some stores. What does that tell you? Not much.

Are you willing to shed your ego and change these organizations by working with them, or are you content to lob hand grenades and sit on the sidelines?opcorn: :welcome:

 

[Dadatwins]

Treeco - The CA test does cover climbing in writing as part of the written test. The entire CA test is written. I think only 8-10% of the test is tree climbing knowledge. The ISA tree worker certificate has both a written and practical climbing test. On the ISA scale of achievements the tree worker test is the bottom rung of the ladder.
As for the TCIA program , I am still on the fence and waiting to see how it progresses before diving in. I like the fact that the goal is to lower insurance rates and possibly get some kind of group buying power. I almost wish the ISA and TCIA would join forces with ISA handling the science and TCIA focused on the business end. Now they are dabbling in both, sort of the jack-of-all-trades -but master- of -little-syndrom. But better than nothing.

 

[clearance]

Speaking of the ISA, check out pages 3 and 4 from the thread "New to treework" by Gotta cut. What a joke.

 

[Dadatwins]

Was wondering when you were going to jump on a ISA thread, knowing how you feel about the group you were gentle, thanks.