There's no money in selling firewood

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I remember this thread when it started 8 years ago. Nothing in life has changed, except I'm older and fatter. Of course there "IS" money to be made. I make enough to go on 3-4 offshore fishing trips and a couple hunting trips a year. But, I'm retired and UPS pays me more to stay home than I could make by myself selling wood. When my Dad was still alive and in business, he would say, "If I'm going to buy a new truck and hire two more men to process wood, and clear a couple hundred dollars a day. Wouldn't I be better off buying the new truck and a chipper, hiring the 2 new ground men, and a new climber, put on a whole new crew, and clear a couple thousand dollars a day". So, it's not "is" there money in it, but how much. I will cut, split, and sell wood as long as I can pick up my saws and drive. I love the sounds and smells of cutting wood. But, I can make more money selling my old Oak fence board bird and squirrel feeders than I do with the wood.

Around here doing tree work is quite seasonal. It's often more of a want than a need too.
Most of the outfits have to resort to putting up Christmas lights and plowing in the winter to keep things going.

I've watched the guys climbing trees and having to deal with the risks of falling with inches of room. I'll stick to the woods!

I certainly have plenty of customers buying firewood just for a cozy fire here and there, but also lots depend on me for their winter heat too.
 
All our wood becomes mulch. It's 10x more profitable than messing with firewood. All the companies in our area pay to dump in our yard and it all goes in a tub grinder.

You sure?

10 cords of logs would make 1280 cu/ft of firewood. Ground up, maybe 1000 cu/ft? (I'm guessing, maybe less even?)

1280 cu/ft of firewood is worth ~$2700-$3000 around here.

Mulch in the bag is 2cu ft, 3 bags for $10, so About $1.65 cu/ft, or roughly $1650 on 10 cords of wood.
(and less if bought bulk non bagged)

If my math is correct (and i may be off, its 0500) mulch would need to sell for $13 a bag to be 10x more $$. Or firewood selling at $16.50 a cord.

There's certainly trees not worth turning into firewood or lumber, I've looked into a tub grinder but the return on paying itself with sold mulch just isn't there for us.

All our cull/junk we burn, either for heat or in a bonfire, or dump for free.
 
Around here doing tree work is quite seasonal. It's often more of a want than a need too.
Most of the outfits have to resort to putting up Christmas lights and plowing in the winter to keep things going.

I've watched the guys climbing trees and having to deal with the risks of falling with inches of room. I'll stick to the woods!

I certainly have plenty of customers buying firewood just for a cozy fire here and there, but also lots depend on me for their winter heat too.
I know you have customers that buy 5 or more cord at a time. I have one that gets 3 cord spread out from Thanksgiving till February, the rest only get 1 cord a year. Down here we had tree work scheduled 6 weeks out, year round. We would only miss a few days a year to weather. Dad used to guarantee his men a half day pay if we didn't work, so he would keep enough Oak around the lot to stick them on the wood pile waiting for the weather to break. If they split for an hour or so and weather didn't show any sign of breaking, he'd let them go and pay the half day. If they didn't want to split wood, they could go home, no hard feelings, but no half day pay. The only wood he brought back to the lot was Oak, everything else he would wholesale to a Farmers Market. All the wood that did get split by the guys on rain days, he gave to me to sell, and I split the rest on my time, so there was no real money in it compared to the Tree Service work. When he retired in 86, he was averaging $85 per man hour on 3 and 4 man crews. I forget what he made on the spray rigs with 2 man crews, it may have been a little less per man hour, but the profit margin was higher due to less money in the equipment. Down here there are big firewood processing operations that I'm sure make a lot of money, but they are not one man, one saw operations, definitely not scroungers. People always ask me why I didn't take over the family business when my Dad retired. I think he made about $800,000 his last year. He had guys that drove trucks get DWI's on the weekend, and not show up for work on Monday, leaving a crew stranded, a customer waiting. He had one of our best climbers shoot himself, thank goodness at home, not on the job. He wasn't able to take real vacations till he was about 50-55, then I never got vacations because I had to run things while he was gone. When he retired I went to UPS. My last year I made just shy of $100,000, had 8 weeks paid time off, didn't have to worry about how other peoples actions would affect my life and such. It's all a trade off. But, anyway, that's why so many of the guys on the forum here get Tree Services to dump their wood free. It's a necessary evil, and down here you can only keep so much "debris" on a lot before the State or County gets on you. So, just get rid of it.
 
I have looked at getting into the firewood business for several years. Lots of little guys running around selling pickup loads. the buy/sell adds are always full of people selling wood, at the first of the burning season. The number drops consideralbly when the weather turns bad and messey. Hunting season starts and those part timers rather spend their time in the woods with a rifle instead of a chainsaw. One tree service I know of has always dabbled in firewood. He piles his wood on his lot and would split it in their off time. He bought a processor this last winter, but a lot of what he cuts wont fit in the processor so he still spends a lot of time using a normal splitter. I havent noticed that he ever runs out of firewood.
 
I know you have customers that buy 5 or more cord at a time. I have one that gets 3 cord spread out from Thanksgiving till February, the rest only get 1 cord a year. Down here we had tree work scheduled 6 weeks out, year round. We would only miss a few days a year to weather. Dad used to guarantee his men a half day pay if we didn't work, so he would keep enough Oak around the lot to stick them on the wood pile waiting for the weather to break. If they split for an hour or so and weather didn't show any sign of breaking, he'd let them go and pay the half day. If they didn't want to split wood, they could go home, no hard feelings, but no half day pay. The only wood he brought back to the lot was Oak, everything else he would wholesale to a Farmers Market. All the wood that did get split by the guys on rain days, he gave to me to sell, and I split the rest on my time, so there was no real money in it compared to the Tree Service work. When he retired in 86, he was averaging $85 per man hour on 3 and 4 man crews. I forget what he made on the spray rigs with 2 man crews, it may have been a little less per man hour, but the profit margin was higher due to less money in the equipment. Down here there are big firewood processing operations that I'm sure make a lot of money, but they are not one man, one saw operations, definitely not scroungers. People always ask me why I didn't take over the family business when my Dad retired. I think he made about $800,000 his last year. He had guys that drove trucks get DWI's on the weekend, and not show up for work on Monday, leaving a crew stranded, a customer waiting. He had one of our best climbers shoot himself, thank goodness at home, not on the job. He wasn't able to take real vacations till he was about 50-55, then I never got vacations because I had to run things while he was gone. When he retired I went to UPS. My last year I made just shy of $100,000, had 8 weeks paid time off, didn't have to worry about how other peoples actions would affect my life and such. It's all a trade off. But, anyway, that's why so many of the guys on the forum here get Tree Services to dump their wood free. It's a necessary evil, and down here you can only keep so much "debris" on a lot before the State or County gets on you. So, just get rid of it.

Most of my orders are 1-2 cords, but I do have several 5-15 cord orders each year as well.

I'm in a spot now where I'd need to have a full time guy year round, but can't really afford it.
Would need someone that can think and do without needing to be babysat and that's tough to find.


As with anything, area/market can make something sell great in one place and not sell elsewhere.
Heating season here is about 8 months.
 
Mulch in bags. We selling 60/70/120yds truck loads to wholesale customers.

After tree service companies, landscapers, and others drop off their wood material, it is loaded into the tub grinder where moisture is added. The mulch runs lengthwise from north to south on the 11 acres so that it receives maximum sun coverage. As soon as the windrows are formed, a sprinkler system begins the watering process, and their internal temperature is monitored. The mulch sits and cooks for about six to nine months before it is ready for sale.

Yeah, i'm pretty sure
 
All our wood becomes mulch. It's 10x more profitable than messing with firewood. All the companies in our area pay to dump in our yard and it all goes in a tub grinder.
I guess it's location, location, location. We had 5 acres about 30 miles outside of Washington DC, surrounded buy bigger farms, so zoning wasn't as bad on us as companies based in town, but we paid more in fuel, to be based so far out. A typical day, I'd make a run home at lunch with a load of chips. Get back after the guys finished lunch, load up the wood, drop the chipper and make a run to the Farmers Market. They paid us $50 for a dump load of wood, 12' bed with 6' sides, they got whatever was on the truck. I had an old Hough Payloader with a 2 yard bucket on it. Once a week or so I'd push the chip piles up and just let them rot. Dad mixed the rotted chips in his garden and let neighbors take all they wanted. He had zero money invested in processing/handling wood once it was off the truck. The old "Huffer" was big enough I could push a weeks worth of chips around in a few minutes. It all boiled down to "why pay several men to make a few hundred dollars, when you could pay the same men, the same amount, to make a few thousand dollars.
 
Mulch in bags. We selling 60/70/120yds truck loads to wholesale customers.

After tree service companies, landscapers, and others drop off their wood material, it is loaded into the tub grinder where moisture is added. The mulch runs lengthwise from north to south on the 11 acres so that it receives maximum sun coverage. As soon as the windrows are formed, a sprinkler system begins the watering process, and their internal temperature is monitored. The mulch sits and cooks for about six to nine months before it is ready for sale.

Yeah, i'm pretty sure

I used the bag cost since that's the most expensive (IE best possible way for it to be 10x the profit). Even then it's about 1/2 the profit as firewood.

Granted if you have no market for firewood, it's a moot point.
 
Most of my orders are 1-2 cords, but I do have several 5-15 cord orders each year as well.

I'm in a spot now where I'd need to have a full time guy year round, but can't really afford it.
Would need someone that can think and do without needing to be babysat and that's tough to find.


As with anything, area/market can make something sell great in one place and not sell elsewhere.
Heating season here is about 8 months.
That's the main reason I had to let the company go. Dad could depend on me, but I couldn't find one knucklehead to depend on. We had a couple of the best climbers in the area, but they were not businessmen. If they made enough money for the day they were happy, they didn't think about down days, where the money came from that Dad used to guarantee their half day, etc. When I was young I had a volatile temper, I could be easy going and get along great, till people started doing really stupid stuff, then I'd blow. We had one dumb arse pick up a chunk of steel, just about the size of a brick, in a big scoop shovel, and throw it through our almost new Asplundh 16" drum chipper. Busted the drum. Dang drum cost several thousand dollars. The guy was a good worker, we had a strict policy of "NO" rakings in the chipper. But, no matter how many times you told them, some one would be scooping up gravel and trash throwing it through the chipper. I found it was just easier for me to be a good employee for someone else, than to find good employees for me.
 
Finding good employees can make or break a business. When I had my hydroseeding company, I couldnt keep good help. They where always running off to the next great job, only to endup getting fired or quitting and trying to run back to me. I had to tolerate this behavior for a few years simply because I couldnt find good help. I bought a $40k truck and mounted my hydroseeder on the back. First trip out one of the guys climbed his big arsh up on the cab and set right down on the top of the cab. His job ended right then and there. People just dont care about you or your equipment. I got tired of it and shut the business down in 2010. I kept the equipment for a few years thinking I would try it again when I retired from my current job. When I offically retired last year I sold the hydroseeder before the temptation took over. I still get two or three calls each week from people that found my old ad somewhere, and are wanting some seeding work done.
 
Finding good employees can make or break a business. When I had my hydroseeding company, I couldnt keep good help. They where always running off to the next great job, only to endup getting fired or quitting and trying to run back to me. I had to tolerate this behavior for a few years simply because I couldnt find good help. I bought a $40k truck and mounted my hydroseeder on the back. First trip out one of the guys climbed his big arsh up on the cab and set right down on the top of the cab. His job ended right then and there. People just dont care about you or your equipment. I got tired of it and shut the business down in 2010. I kept the equipment for a few years thinking I would try it again when I retired from my current job. When I offically retired last year I sold the hydroseeder before the temptation took over. I still get two or three calls each week from people that found my old ad somewhere, and are wanting some seeding work done.
The problem with Tree work was ground help was pretty reliable, and worked hard. Good climbers were few and far between, and they knew it. If you said boo to them they would quit, and the next day they would be hired on with another big company. Everybody knew the top men and would be trying to hire them away from you. They would offer them $5 bucks an hour more and keep them through the good months then lay them off during the winter, then they would be back begging for their old job. We had been in business in the area for 4 generations, so we had enough clientele to stay busy during the bad months. Dad climbed into his 70's and by the late 70's early 80's I was climbing. So, if we had a no show, one of us had to take his place, which put running estimates behind. It provided a good living, put me through private school and college. But there were a lot of family sacrifices to be made. Climbing gets in your blood. I always missed climbing, but never missed the 24/7 of owning the business. I still climbed on the side till I had my knee replaced 2 years ago at age 60.
 
I just got a rush order for a truckload of dry firewood. Buyer says he will bring over a trailer for me to fill at my drop site. It all has to be ready to burn this weekend for campers who may show up at the park. He wants dry splits.

To me, that means the campers are coming out of the freezer and need heat for their evening parties. Somehow wood fuel is better than solar (or about anything else) at night. Simple as that. But, if I raise my price as buck higher than last year, he said he can find another supplier. Oh, and I have to load his trailer by myself.

Yep, there is no money in selling firewood. Great exercise and fresh air, that's the reward, not money.
 
I just got a rush order for a truckload of dry firewood. Buyer says he will bring over a trailer for me to fill at my drop site. It all has to be ready to burn this weekend for campers who may show up at the park. He wants dry splits.

To me, that means the campers are coming out of the freezer and need heat for their evening parties. Somehow wood fuel is better than solar (or about anything else) at night. Simple as that. But, if I raise my price as buck higher than last year, he said he can find another supplier. Oh, and I have to load his trailer by myself.

Yep, there is no money in selling firewood. Great exercise and fresh air, that's the reward, not money.


Sounds like a bluff to keep prices down. Call his bluff.
 
Pass on doing business that doesn't pay. You make the rules, not the customer.


I just got a rush order for a truckload of dry firewood. Buyer says he will bring over a trailer for me to fill at my drop site. It all has to be ready to burn this weekend for campers who may show up at the park. He wants dry splits.

To me, that means the campers are coming out of the freezer and need heat for their evening parties. Somehow wood fuel is better than solar (or about anything else) at night. Simple as that. But, if I raise my price as buck higher than last year, he said he can find another supplier. Oh, and I have to load his trailer by myself.

Yep, there is no money in selling firewood. Great exercise and fresh air, that's the reward, not money.
 
I just got a rush order for a truckload of dry firewood. Buyer says he will bring over a trailer for me to fill at my drop site. It all has to be ready to burn this weekend for campers who may show up at the park. He wants dry splits.

To me, that means the campers are coming out of the freezer and need heat for their evening parties. Somehow wood fuel is better than solar (or about anything else) at night. Simple as that. But, if I raise my price as buck higher than last year, he said he can find another supplier. Oh, and I have to load his trailer by myself.

Yep, there is no money in selling firewood. Great exercise and fresh air, that's the reward, not money.
i wood think that your buyer is in a bind. i wonder if he raised any prices at his campground since last year. if he has been a longtime regular customer then i think he should know what you have delivered in the past and tell him that. plus nobody wants a unhappy camper.
 
I was doing a hundred cords a year and now I’m giving my logs away. I have absolutely no patience for firewood. I can’t get a guy who can sharpen a saw and run a splitter productively to save my life. There is no way in heck I’m taking a day away from doing tree work with a crew to “split wood”. I might as well take a field trip to dave and busters.
 
I have always said I can sit on the couch and go broke a lot easier than going broke working my arsh off. I guess dealing with people is why I dont even try to sell firewood. I have always tried to price my services at a reasonable rate. My price is what it is and if you dont like it move on, dont stand there with me and try to haggel, I dont have the patience for it.

I got tickled at the guy I sold my old hydroseeder to. I made him a price over the phone, and sent a bunch of pictures. I had robbed the engine for my wood splitter, but everything else was there. He asked about possible trades, told me what he had, mostly hydraulic stuff, and I told him to just bring it with him when he came to look at the hydroseeder. When he got here, he started trying to trade this and that, telling me this part is worth this much, that part is worth something else. I laughed and said, Look we are both tradeing on junk, nothing new here. I want rid of the hydroseeder, you want rid of your stuff, just throw what you think is right in the tractor bucket and we will go from there. He Started throwing stuff off his trailer until it was empty, then he went to his truck and started throwing out more stuff. Tractor bucket was full of cyl, pumps, valves, a brand new f11 style hyd motor, which would cost around $1600 and was worth way more than the hydroseeder, a bunch of swivel fittings. He didnt want to hual all that junk back home. No money changed hands, he was happy, I was happy. Happy, happy, happy. Since he still had his money in his pocket, we started tradeing on guns. Sold him a rifle and gave him a new set of reloading dies, some new brass and new bullets. We prowled thru my other junk, but he didnt see anything he needed. Now he was Happy happy happy. I keep telling myself I am going to go visit him and his junk pile one of these days. And while I am at it, anybody need a new 8000rpm hyd motor to build a processor saw with, I just happen to have a new one I can give a bargain in. Bring a truck load of junk and you might get it for free.
 

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