ArboristSite.com Sponsors
 
 


Thoughts on aftermarket ms 660(hultz) or Stihl ms 461

Discussion in 'Milling & Saw Mills' started by Jason37, Jun 2, 2019.

?

Which saw ?

  1. Aftermarket rebuilt ms660

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. Stihl MS461

    6 vote(s)
    75.0%
  1. Jason37

    Jason37 ArboristSite Lurker

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    K0C2A0
    hello there thanks for looking at my post. My 1st post.

    Ok so What I’m wondering is should I buy a aftermarket rebuilt ms660 clone for 750

    Or should I buy a Stihl ms 461 in decent condition for 650. I attached pictures of the two saws

    I will be using it on my chainsaw mill probably 2-3 times a week and I would like to buy something I can rely on and will last. They say bigger is better for milling but I also want it to last. I’m just looking for some experienced millers thoughts.
    Thank you for reading n have a good one.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. cuinrearview

    cuinrearview Red saw lover

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    Messages:
    5,905
    Likes Received:
    10,113
    Location:
    Hillsdale, MI
    "Reliable and last" is not synonymous with "huztl"
     
    Jerseyshure, ML12, SeMoTony and 8 others like this.
  3. jnance

    jnance ArboristSite Lurker

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    Schoolcraft,mi
    I was running a 28” bar on my 046 in oak. It ran it pretty good. But I sure can tell the difference in the ms661. The after market ones are ok at best.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    SeMoTony likes this.
  4. Jason37

    Jason37 ArboristSite Lurker

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    K0C2A0
    Your 046 was it a Stihl or a aftermarket rebuilt saw.


    I’m new to buying saws and don’t know what saw to go with. I can buy the Stihl but then have to find another 20-24 inch bar where as the 660 AM has nice bar but won’t be something that’ll last... according to a lot of what I read.
     
    SeMoTony likes this.
  5. jnance

    jnance ArboristSite Lurker

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    Schoolcraft,mi
    My saw is all stihl. I had a few after market parts and had to replace them.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    SeMoTony likes this.
  6. Jason37

    Jason37 ArboristSite Lurker

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    K0C2A0
    Yea I might go with the Stihl 461. Just bc I want it to last and seems the AM always need to be replaced or they die while using.
     
    SeMoTony and Joe468 like this.
  7. foeke

    foeke ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2015
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    300
    Location:
    DE
    Im not sure about why you came with these options. Neither I would recomend.
    The Hutzl is fine if you like it as a project.
    But just if you would be fine if it would break on day one, and you had to fix it some more.
    And then It works fine for a while, and it is the best thing in the world, because you made it work.
    Just like an older Italien sportscar.
    You don't know the feeling when "Your Alfa works fine and you get to your destination in a spirited drive and you didn't hear anything suspicious in the drive train" when you are used to a normal reliable car.
    But then a big BUT, if you always need to get to your destination, you better get something else.

    The 461 is a nice bucking saw.

    I have a Makita 7910 wich is kind of the same category as the 461. And I notice, it is more of a sportscar than the truck you need for the job when milling.
    I preffer to hire something bigger and slower.

    There are so many options with your budget I would think. Husky 394/395 comes to mind. But also the Dolmar 9010 would be a better pick if you want to safe some money.

    Not the 390. That's just a better sportscar.

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G955F met Tapatalk
     
  8. ammoaddict

    ammoaddict ArboristSite Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    884
    Location:
    Granite Falls, NC
    Some of those huztl 660 kits are very good and reliable, the earlier ones were not. But you can buy a kit for less than $300 or you can buy a complete one ( the blue ones) for a little over $300. There are several YouTube videos of both. I definitely wouldn't pay $750 for one.

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
     
    SeMoTony and foeke like this.
  9. Ryan'smilling

    Ryan'smilling Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,328
    Likes Received:
    4,691
    Location:
    Western WI
    $750 for a clone saw is nonsense.

    You didn't say what you're milling. Making some 12" boards from some pine or for, sure, go for the 461. It'll be nice because you can use it for other stuff besides milling too. Much bigger than that and I'd second the recommendation for a 394/395. Got the power, built to last, cheap enough used, and good parts support.
     
    Duce and SeMoTony like this.
  10. Jason37

    Jason37 ArboristSite Lurker

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    K0C2A0
    I chose those two saws just bc I thought they were the stronger saws I saw on kijiji and that I thought would be good for what I needed. I would rather not be working on my saw other normal upkeep to keep it in good condition. That’s why I figured the 461. There was a Husqvarna I was eyeballing also was a 575xp but he sold the day b4 I could pick it up.

    I watched a few videos and the ones I saw just showed cuts but didn’t really mention how long they had it and if they broke often or rarely just mostly how fast they cut thru sum big logs compared to the real Stihl

    I’m paying with canadian money idk if that makes it any better lol. But I’m just milling some oak n ceder trying to make rough lumber for myself. The tree I have now is about 30” wide and I don’t mind doing two cuts if I had too. I just got a chainsaw mill and trying to get used to it.

    I’m gonna keep watching to see if anything else comes up around me. There was a dolmar 70cc for 300 bucks but I wasn’t sure if I should get that just bc it was a bit smaller then the other two saws.
     

    Attached Files:

    SeMoTony likes this.
  11. BobL

    BobL No longer addicted to AS

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    7,543
    Likes Received:
    3,113
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Well in my book that immediately rules out the Hultz.
     
    Duce, SeMoTony and andy at clover like this.
  12. andy at clover

    andy at clover Woods!

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2018
    Messages:
    803
    Likes Received:
    828
    Location:
    PNW
    Milling is tough on saws.


    IMO, Buying a clone should be scratched from your list for 2-3 times a week use.... at any price.
    A meteor Piston/Cylinder is one thing. Meteor specializes in those parts.
    Those Full on clones are for limited use/hobbyists at best.

    You might try putting a WTB add in the classified.... lots of Canadians here.
     
    Duce, SeMoTony and foeke like this.
  13. foeke

    foeke ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2015
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    300
    Location:
    DE
    Did you find that milling 101 sticky? I milled way to much before reading though that.
    The raker part was most usefull.
    You say, I might use 2 cuts, and I get that.
    In reality, you won't and it won't help.

    In just a minute the engine is already as hot as it can get. Most saws are not made to run under heavy load for longer than 20 seconds or so.
    In 20 seconds, you'll be through a big oak with a 461, but in that same 20 seconds you just started milling it. And you won't be doing 30 cuts.
    Nobody is that patience.
    And I'm not sure that would even be better, constantly heating up, and cooling down.

    Better have a saw that isn't getting that hot in the first place (a relatively long stroke is the defining difference I believe).

    Older types of saws (with less HP per cc) are in that category (like the dolmar 9010).

    An other catagory would be saw designed to take on rainforrest type of trees. Like the 088/880 or the 3120. And the for a smaller budget the 394/395.

    One great thing about the 088/880 and 3120 are that the oiler is also made for oiling big bars.

    So if you want to mill regulary, don't even look at those high RPM/HP per cc saws. Great for bucking and the like. Not for milling.
    And you don't even need to go more expensive.
    Just an other category.
    One of the few situations where olders saws might be better.

    If you also want to fell the tree, buy 2 saws. You can fell substancial trees with a good 50 or 60cc saw wich didn't break the bank.

    BTW the reason I am pressing the matter is because I bought that 7910 with the same train of thought. Really really great maschine. Even going through 1 meter wide european oak. But I am going to buy a fixed mill and hire a big lump ones in a while, because I don't want to kill that great saw. And killing you do. Even milling 60cm (25"?) Oak you can hear the thing sobbing. It might last for a couple of years milling occasionally. But it would last maybe a lifetime not milling.

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G955F met Tapatalk
     
    SeMoTony likes this.
  14. SeMoTony

    SeMoTony Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    27,781
    Location:
    S E Mo
    I have used Ms-460 muff-modded and max flo air cleaner. Avatar shows 60" bar used w/460 against the stump. More often it is used with 42" Oregon slicing up to 38", semi-skip or full skip square chisel is used. The avatar was shot almost 3 years ago, couple weeks after a 10 foot white oak log 38"x41" on the fat end was milled using 42" bar and ripping chain. 20190428_131152.jpg
    Here the 60" is used for a maple trunk, with an 8 pin drive, semi-skip. And that saw sang:) Bought off "trading post" both the 0r6 and the 661 at a discount from brand new.
    And the 42" with an 046 muff nodded max flow on a narrower slice further from the pith w/semi-skip 20190506_125814.jpg
    Let whichever PH you use breath so it runs cooler. Sharp cutters are the most important use of the available power. Smooth consistant feed helps keep the surface smooth. Just what has worked for me as a hobby miller.
     
  15. BobL

    BobL No longer addicted to AS

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    7,543
    Likes Received:
    3,113
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    My temperature gauge says that the temp on a milling saw just keeps going up and up during a cut.
    Initially the Temp goes up fairly quickly and then starts to slow down and eventually it's going up by about 1º per minute but I don't remember ever seeing the temp plateau while milling unless I deliberate reduce the pressure on the saw. There's a good reason for this and that is because the chain is getting blunter during the cut and there is a tendency to try and maintain the same rate of cut.
    Either way this puts a big strain on saws, there's no doubt that a 20 minute cut at WOT is a heavy load and one that clones are not designed for.

    Those oilers are not very effective on long bars as most of the oil gets flung off at the nose.
    The 3120 has massive oiling capacity but it is largely wasted, The best way around this is an Aux oiler.
     
    foeke, ML12 and SeMoTony like this.
  16. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    7,710
    Likes Received:
    3,776
    Location:
    North East USA
    If you like fixing cheap crap buy Chinesium quality
     
    Duce and SeMoTony like this.
  17. Jason37

    Jason37 ArboristSite Lurker

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    K0C2A0
    I ended up just buying a Stihl ms661 with a 36 inch bar just patiently waiting to get it I end up watching videos waiting for it . But I couldn’t see buying a saw for 700 just bc I wouldn’t get no money back if it wasn’t for me but I felt if I wanted I could get most of my money back with a Stihl but I doubt I’ll ever sell it.
    For the ripping chain did anyone ever order from loggerchain I just figured bc they have free shipping I might order from them.
    And with the huztl saws I would like to get the ms 440 just to try putting it together.
    That way I don’t gotta use the big 661 for smaller jobs.
    Thank u everyone with there fast input I like this forum get good info
     
    andy at clover and SeMoTony like this.
  18. cuinrearview

    cuinrearview Red saw lover

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    Messages:
    5,905
    Likes Received:
    10,113
    Location:
    Hillsdale, MI
    Good choice not buying Huztl. If you really want to put one together, buy a project saw from here, locally, or on Ebay. Tear it all the way down, buy OEM parts, and put it together. You'll get the "building a puzzle" experience but you'll have something that lasts, and is mechanically as new as the China crap. I bet the cost will be close too, especially after you replace all of the questionable chit on the China doll.
     
  19. SeMoTony

    SeMoTony Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    Messages:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    27,781
    Location:
    S E Mo
    Compare price with Madsens BOGO. They sell Oregon any where, but Stihl restricts them to state they are in. Open up the muffler ( think MT can) match the gasket to the exhaust, then use gasket to match opening into can. Pull the screen out of the way to open the port as large as possible before replacing screen.
    20190520_162518.jpg
    50" bar semi-skip square chisel with an 8 pin drive that made the pile on the left from 3 cuts. Mine runs much stronger with free- er breathing, 661c off trading post.
    Enjoy milling safely
     
    andy at clover likes this.
  20. andy at clover

    andy at clover Woods!

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2018
    Messages:
    803
    Likes Received:
    828
    Location:
    PNW

    661 is a great Choice... you’ll love it!

    I the oiler on my old 661 was opened up all the way and it was still not quiet enough for a 36” bar.... you’ll want an outboard oiler dripping onto the tip at the “lower side” of the bar.
    Nothing fancy just hang a bottle and tube out on your mill post.
    On my set up with the 3120, I get by with a helper squirting a blob of canned canola oil intended as kitchen spray oil.
    It’s Costco brand cans and seems do a really good job.
     

Share This Page