That wedge in the slot trick is popular here where we have lots of small trees. But like Bitzer pointed out, the weakness is that you now have just two narrow pieces of holding wood--insufficient--and when you pound the wedge it's easy to pop one of the two, and now the tree wants to go sideways or elsewhere.
Tongue and groove feeling technique
- Thread starter chuckwood
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Canyon Angler
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For cases where it's not entirely clear which part of a downed tree is in compression and which part is in tension, I saw a good tip for using a "tongue and groove" cut while bucking to determine how the tree wants to move here:
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Jump to 41m46s from the beginning...
Looks like a neat trick for when you're not sure what the tree will do when severed...
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Jump to 41m46s from the beginning...
Looks like a neat trick for when you're not sure what the tree will do when severed...
RandyMac
Stiff Member
Gak, GOL gayness
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
Yep
Doesn't address side bind at all, either. The bind that's gonna get you is the one that you aren't paying any attention to.
Canyon Angler
Addicted to ArboristSite
Really? Since you have open kerfs on the top, bottom, left and right (3, 6, 9 and 12 o'clock) it seems to me that it should reveal bind/strain/stress in pretty much any direction, as the kerfs either open, close or bind the bar...
Or am I not understanding what you mean by "side bind"?
Yup. Too much monkey motion.
This is a commonly used technique in the great palm forests of the Pacific Northwest.
Only watched part of this... i feel dumber now...
I'll watch it later when i can skip the lame parts easier...
Shouldn't take 40 minutes to fall a tree even if you stop and describe every step
Canyon Angler
Addicted to ArboristSite
Like I said, jump to 41:46 for the material in question
Canyon Angler you obviously have no experience logging. No, cutting a few cords of firewood doesn't provide the experience or the variety of situations that allows you to express your nonsensical opinions on every situation that pops up here in the F&L forum. While you are polite you argue nearly every answer to the questions you have raised. I doubt you are learning anything, from wedges, to boots lacing, cutting a face. You really should go to Chainsaw and hang out there because I think you are building a very poor reputation here. BTW I have had you on ignore for a couple of weeks but I logged out and reread your recent posts.
Here's a scenario I run into quite a bit. Edge of a clearcut, trees that have lived their whole lives in a closed canopy are not wind-firmed at all, so the first and second rank or two blow over in the first winter or two. These are tall skinny poles, 80-120 feet on average, and when they fall between their brethren, they wiggle their way between them on their way down. This is not limb lock. This is a tree in top, bottom, and often multiple side binds. It might take several months and a storm or two for them to wiggle their way all the way horizontal, by which time they are loaded like a bear trap. You go into one of those thinking you can read the bind first try, you're gonna be lucky to just pinch your bar. Best to work your way from small end to large, releasing part of the tension as you go, in several cuts, staying behind one of the trees it's bound on so that the tree will take the hit instead of you if you release the tension wrong. Now cut a dozen or a hundred of these to open up a mile or so of road. You'll find it to be tiring and unforgiving work. It would be easy to end up dead bucking this kind of loaded wood, so you gotta be super aware of your own complacency. Get tired, stop. Take a break. Drink some water. This is not efficient work. You're not gonna make any money at it, and it's not exciting or glorious or fun. It's just work, tedious and dangerous. This is what I meant by "does not address side binds at all".
Bear traps. This wasn't as close as it looked but it was closer than I wanted.
No big deal. He's a dilettante. They come, they go. Very few of them stick around long enough to really learn anything. Maybe we can show them a few ways to keep their woeful lack of real experience from getting them killed. Maybe not.
It's important to try, though. I think we owe that to people who come here asking honest questions. And, even though it's a teeth-grinding and headache producing gigantic PITA, we need to help them if we can.
That being said...If we offer advice and they argue with us or if they start posting videos of "the proper way to cut a tree" then all bets are off and the dumb SOB can get his schooling someplace else.
My sentiments exactly.
Ok, I watched the part you where talking about... don't do this if you plan on selling any of it, or at least not the way this jack ass is.
There is a bunch that he is correct and safe about, but a bunch that is ridiculous and over bearing, like the kung foolery pose every time he cuts, you should be on firm footing but come on...
anyway, don't limb like him either, cut em long if you have to (it makes life easier on some) but slick em off like a good barber, leaving all them pig ears is just more **** someone else has to clean up later, or more weight for the truck to drag around for no reason. When you get some of them under limbs, judge the forces on em, then just nibble a bit of the compression side, and torch off the tension side, maybe at an angle if need be, but shaving it off like that is a complete waste, stay clear of it yes, but its not magic its not going to jump out and bite you fer ****s sake, log may roll yes, but that can and will happen at anytime for any reason.
As for situational awareness, yes... at all times...
anyhow, back to the original question,
Bucking,
Way I do it, that makes life a whole lot simpler is mark em as I limb, this does 2 things, takes off as much weight as possible, and allows me to rethink my lengths as necessary, 2 36's and a bunch of top, or 1 36, 1 30, and a 16? etc key is to maximize the wood, cutting everything at x length can and will hose you eventually
then I will usually buck from the top down, the top being the lightest bit, will have less effect on the situation, then work my way back to the butt, where I can retrieve my wedges and axe and move on to the next.
Judging bind/tension/compression etc comes with time. Generally though I will cut the compression side until it starts to move (its very slight but noticeable) then cut the tension side until its free, with a few various techniques depending on each situation, like big wood cut as much of the far side as possible, then compression-tension, Boring Is reserved for cutting whatever side is near dirt if it needs cut first, purely to keep the chain out of the dirt (and I fail at this often). the whole trick is to give somewhere for all that energy to go, hence cutting the compression side first.
Its even necessary to put in a small "face" from time to time if you have say a whole bunch of wood hanging off one side and don't want to slab it off (like a chair but on the ground)
Your going to have a pinch, if you haven't had one yet, wedges help, a second saw is mandatory... never cut without a back up if for any reason then just this.
things the video didn't show, is getting trees wound around multiple obstacles putting massive side force on em, its very important to relieve that pressure in the correct manner, yet another reason I limb and then buck, ****ing this up could mean a nasty swinging tree that takes out your legs and chucks 30' into the bushes never to be seen again, best thing to do is remove as much weight as possible, and buck as much other wood as you can off, then cutting from the compression side buck at the sketchy bit, so that the wood jumps away from you...
Canyon Angler
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thanks for taking the time and trouble, Northman. Yeah, I thought that "shaving off the compression wood" on the limbs sounded pretty crazy...
I usually limb from the top down too, seems to make the tree more manageable in a slow controlled way while removing weight, plus if it rolls when you're limbing it that way, maybe it won't as likely get you... glad to hear that's how you also do it.
Thanks, I guess that's something you can only learn from dealing with or watching someone else. I appreciate your help.
Jeff
I usually limb from the top down too, seems to make the tree more manageable in a slow controlled way while removing weight, plus if it rolls when you're limbing it that way, maybe it won't as likely get you... glad to hear that's how you also do it.
Thanks, I guess that's something you can only learn from dealing with or watching someone else. I appreciate your help.
Jeff
Canyon Angler
Addicted to ArboristSite
I hate those. I've got a handful to deal with on my land, one not too bad, but another that's a maybe 30" DBH white oak hung up in a red maple at maybe 60° on one of the only "hillsides" on the property... I usually try to avoid messing with them, or try cutting them just enough to yank out/down with the truck.
Canyon Angler
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thank you. Now I get what you mean. Have seen similar situations where trees are all twisted up and gnarled all together every which way after tornadoes and also a vicious microburst here a few years back. Cut a big ERC that got hit by that microburst, and I swear it was all twisted up and knotted as if it had gone through a tornado washing machine.
I can see where that would be very treacherous, and how, because it's such tiring work, there would be a tendency to want to just say **** it and torch the stuff off, which could get you into trouble. Thanks for taking the time to explain how to tackle it.
Jeff
RandyMac
Stiff Member
Are those the Hairy Palms we hear about?
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