Too many coals!

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savageactor7 said:
If you're around the stove all day I suppose you find yourself dealing with coals more often than the wood burner that returns to the stove after an 8hr absence.

Without an ash box the best way I found to deal with the 'too many coals to reload' situation is to; always burn as hot as possible (WOT), when ever the opportunity presents itself shovel out the inert ash and rake the coals forward before loading. Sometime it's inconvenient, like the middle of the night but that's what you have to do.

It's pretty much an ongoing situation, and that's with well seasoned wood too.
Click to expand...
LOL - those coals are why I don't have to get up in the middle of the night!
 
Whitespider said:
That just made a deeper bed of coals (more coals) in my box...


Sounds as if your firewood could use another year of seasoning...
*
Click to expand...
That could be. Most was cut about a year ago, but I don't have a wood shed and it's stacked outside. At the beginning of burning season I covered the top of the stack with plastic, but leave the sides of the stack open, with the cut ends of the log exposed so they can get air and dry out, but the ends get wet every time it rains. If I check the moisture content after the wood is inside long enough to dry off, the meter reads about 8-10% up to 20%. Of course, those gadgets read only just below the surface, since the probes don't go very far down inside most pieces of hardwood.
 
Split a piece and take a reading on the newly exposed areas to find out how seasoned it is. I don't think a little rain on ends have much of an impact. Be sure it's off the ground on pallets or something.
 
I further split a few pieces. The moisture reading varied from just below 20% to about 23%. I have always been told to aim for 20%. Would the extra 3% make that much difference? I don't really have a choice, since this is the only wood I have for this season.

The above readings were for oak and a couple other unknown species. With the oak, the readings were taken from heartwood. The sapwood shows much higher content, about 45%, but that comprises only about the outer inch of the log. A lot of the sapwood is rotted or has mushrooms growing from it, but most of the heartwood is sound. I just think of sapwood as useless waste, so little is lost. Before I was able to cut and split, the logs lay outside on the ground for about a year, and we tend to have a wet spring here.

The bottom layer of the stack is pieces of elm cut from dead trees, too large to fit in the stove and impossible to split, so I put it down to take the earth moisture and keep the good wood off the ground.

Don
 
Donk4kyv said:
I further split a few pieces. The moisture reading varied from just below 20% to about 23%. I have always been told to aim for 20%. Would the extra 3% make that much difference? I don't really have a choice, since this is the only wood I have for this season.

The above readings were for oak and a couple other unknown species. With the oak, the readings were taken from heartwood. The sapwood shows much higher content, about 45%, but that comprises only about the outer inch of the log. A lot of the sapwood is rotted or has mushrooms growing from it, but most of the heartwood is sound. I just think of sapwood as useless waste, so little is lost. Before I was able to cut and split, the logs lay outside on the ground for about a year, and we tend to have a wet spring here.

The bottom layer of the stack is pieces of elm cut from dead trees, too large to fit in the stove and impossible to split, so I put it down to take the earth moisture and keep the good wood off the ground.

Don
Click to expand...

That's high still. You can resplit it now smaller, stack as much as you can near the heater, and rotate the ends. You need down in the teens to get a semi decent burn.
 
its not that im not getting enough heat its just that if i dont keep stirring them and letting them burn up, id end up with a firebox full of coals and no room for wood. ill try burning a little hotter. but i feel im burning plenty hot. the wood im burning has been split and stacked for at least 2 years, if not 3.
 
Just cause it's been split and stacked for 3 years + won't mean nothing to the wood if was kept badly or the weather didn't let it dry. I have a 5 cord of 4fts that didn't dry cause they were kept 4in above of a swamp, my fault.

It has to be dry to burn at it's best.
 
@ziggo_2
Listen, these guys are gonna' tell you it's everything from a draft problem to you're not running it properly, and everything in between like wet wood or the stove is too small. The simple fact is, going off a thread I started last winter and a couple others, some do have that problem and some don't.
I've noticed a few things about the guys who don't have that problem...
  • they live in warmer areas of the country.
  • they live in newer, tighter, well insulated homes with modern windows.
  • they live in a relatively small home.
  • they're using the stove as supplemental heat or a room heater.
  • they're gone at work all day, no one is home feeding the fire for 8, 10, 12 hours at a time.
  • they actually do occasionally, or rarely, have that problem... but to a lesser level.
Now, I'm not sayin' all of those apply... but I bet if ya' took a poll, 99% of the guys not having the problem would fit within 2, 3 or 4 of the above descriptions. Just as, if ya' took a poll, 99% of the guys experiencing the problem would fit within 2, 3, or 4 of the below descriptions...
  • they live in colder areas of the country.
  • they live in older, draftier, less insulated homes...such as old farm houses and such.
  • they live in a relatively large home.
  • they're using the stove as primary heat or trying to heat a large area.
  • someone is around the stove most of the day feeding it.
  • they don't have near as much problem during warmer weather.
Any stove, any wood-fired heating appliance will make a lot of coals if ya' run them hard... the difference is in how that appliance utilizes the coal bed. For the most part... the modern, high efficiency, EPA compliant stoves just don't burn the coal bed as fast and hot as the older (so-called) smoke dragon designs. Long burning coal beds... those 10, 12, 14 hour burns are basically worthless if... I'll say it again... IF ya' have a relatively high heat demand. Fuel efficiency ain't the same as heating efficiency... if'n ya' need more heat, ya' need to burn more fuel at a faster rate, and there ain't no way around that. When ya' burn more fuel at a faster rate, fuel efficiency drops and heating (horsepower) efficiency goes up. If you're adding fuel faster than the appliance can use it (turn it to ash), in an attempt to make more heat (horsepower), the box fills up with unused fuel. Sure, a larger firebox will help, because larger will radiate more heat... but there is a point of diminishing return. Larger ain't the fix when heating demand peaks, burning those coals (the fuel) faster and hotter is the fix, and the modern, high-efficiency stoves just don't do that like the older smoke dragons do... it-is-what-it-is.

Just do the math... what puts out more heat per hour?? 50% efficiency over 5 or 6 hours, or 80% efficiency over 10 or 12 hours??
The math don't lie. The lower (average) per hour output likely works extremely well for many, but for some of us with higher heat demand it flat don't work worth sour owl crap. Next "they'll" tell ya' to insulate, replace windows and doors, and lord knows what else... but none of that changes what-is... does it?? I heat with wood, I harvest my wood from basically my back yard... when I figure the cost of insulating, new doors, new windows and whatnot... well, I could burn an extra 3-4 cord per winter for 15 years and not make-up the difference (not counting my time). Not sayin' I don't make improvements slowly and surely... but I ain't goin' into debt to accomplish it. In the meantime I need heat... and I may be able to reduce that demand somewhat by "modernizing" the home... but, where I live, out here in the county, I'm always gonna' need heat, and lots of it.
*
 
Any stove, any wood-fired heating appliance will make a lot of coals if ya' run them hard...

My new wood burner doesn't. It turns everything into BTUs & leaves no coals no matter how hard it runs. Night & day to my old one. Down-drafting into a gassification chamber is like running a turbocharger - I like it.

(I consider a boiler an appliance...)
 
Hello,
I find that cherry gives me the most coals. I hate to try and take them out when they are red hot....makes too much dust....Wanda doesn't like that !!!!!! So, I just open the air up wide and let them burn down. However, this makes less heat overall and the house starts to cool off.....nobody ever said burning wood was easy !!!!!!!!

Henry and Wanda
 
When we deliberately make charcoal, wood is heated in a oxygen deprived container to drive off moisture and gases. To get coals to cook over, in a campfire, a big pile of wood needs to be burned in open air so that some is oxygen deprived. Using charcoal in a forge to work metal air is forced thru the coals with a blower from under the fire.
If you are winding up with a fire box full of coals you certainly aren't running a forge inside your wood burner.
 
Whitespider said:
@ziggo_2
Next "they'll" tell ya' to insulate, replace windows and doors, and lord knows what else... but none of that changes what-is... does it?? I heat with wood, I harvest my wood from basically my back yard... when I figure the cost of insulating, new doors, new windows and whatnot... well, I could burn an extra 3-4 cord per winter for 15 years and not make-up the difference (not counting my time). Not sayin' I don't make improvements slowly and surely... but I ain't goin' into debt to accomplish it.
*
Click to expand...

This isn't towards you whitey, but society in general would rather throw away money eating fast food, or going to the movies, or buying the fanciest most expensive gadgets before even considering putting a dime into where they live. In return, they complain about high utility bills, and the lack of comfort in the home. While windows are expensive, sometimes a little caulking or a couple of seals can make a big difference, or finding and sealing those pesky leaks in the attic. I dropped close to 30 percent on my heating demand by simply airsealing our attic with some sheetmetal I had laying around and under 50.00 in caulking and foam. I added blown in insulation in the attic from 3" to 16" and that cost me 400.00 and a couple hours of my time. In return our upstairs climbed an average of 10 degrees over winter, and dropped at least 10 degrees over summer. So that's 450.00 and a few hours of my time, that's a decent flat screen tv. That 450 dollars cut our wood usage quite a bit, and it's saving us money over all the seasons. I understand I could have saved a ton of money and done nothing with the house and kept the old furnace, but after having a car accident, hernia surgery, lung surgery it gets harder to keep ahead. I have a family of 5 and I don't need a full time job gathering wood. I'll put my money in the house to upgrade its efficiency, before wasting it on stuff I don't need. The payback period for the new furnace was a few months, same with the insulation.

To get back on track, we had a coaling issue just not that long ago. Feeding hickory into our furnace when temps were -14 with chills of -40. The furnace simply isn't big enough for those temperatures considering the size and age of our home. I ran the lp furnace here and there as needed for a day and when things warmed up in the single digits we were back in business. We can go below zero, it's the winds that get us. With our old woodfurnace (shaker grates) I remember dropping below zero and having a coal bed so deep I couldn't add more than a piece or two. That's because the furnace was struggling to heat, and with the design we had little heat from the coal bed. As we tighten our home, woodburning only becomes so much easier. Less tending of the fire, less coaling and longer burn times.

Wet wood will most definitely cause coaling. One thing to help it (May not prevent it though) would be to open up the air when the fire is approaching the coaling stage. It will be easier to burn down the coals at that point, then let the coals cool in the back of the firebox. If that happens you will play catch up and you'll get little heat. Luckily we have the benefit of an automatic damper control, and that will open and close the air based on the house temps. I always wake to a firebox with ash in front and nice hot coals in the back.
 
laynes69 said:
This isn't towards you whitey, but society in general would rather throw away money eating fast food, or going to the movies, or buying the fanciest most expensive gadgets before even considering putting a dime into where they live. In return, they complain about high utility bills, and the lack of comfort in the home. While windows are expensive, sometimes a little caulking or a couple of seals can make a big difference, or finding and sealing those pesky leaks in the attic. I dropped close to 30 percent on my heating demand by simply airsealing our attic with some sheetmetal I had laying around and under 50.00 in caulking and foam. I added blown in insulation in the attic from 3" to 16" and that cost me 400.00 and a couple hours of my time. In return our upstairs climbed an average of 10 degrees over winter, and dropped at least 10 degrees over summer. So that's 450.00 and a few hours of my time, that's a decent flat screen tv. That 450 dollars cut our wood usage quite a bit, and it's saving us money over all the seasons. I understand I could have saved a ton of money and done nothing with the house and kept the old furnace, but after having a car accident, hernia surgery, lung surgery it gets harder to keep ahead. I have a family of 5 and I don't need a full time job gathering wood. I'll put my money in the house to upgrade its efficiency, before wasting it on stuff I don't need. The payback period for the new furnace was a few months, same with the insulation.

To get back on track, we had a coaling issue just not that long ago. Feeding hickory into our furnace when temps were -14 with chills of -40. The furnace simply isn't big enough for those temperatures considering the size and age of our home. I ran the lp furnace here and there as needed for a day and when things warmed up in the single digits we were back in business. We can go below zero, it's the winds that get us. With our old woodfurnace (shaker grates) I remember dropping below zero and having a coal bed so deep I couldn't add more than a piece or two. That's because the furnace was struggling to heat, and with the design we had little heat from the coal bed. As we tighten our home, woodburning only becomes so much easier. Less tending of the fire, less coaling and longer burn times.

Wet wood will most definitely cause coaling. One thing to help it (May not prevent it though) would be to open up the air when the fire is approaching the coaling stage. It will be easier to burn down the coals at that point, then let the coals cool in the back of the firebox. If that happens you will play catch up and you'll get little heat. Luckily we have the benefit of an automatic damper control, and that will open and close the air based on the house temps. I always wake to a firebox with ash in front and nice hot coals in the back.
Click to expand...

Agree with alot of you. This furnace isnt anything special, im just trying to get the most out of it. I bought it before finding this site and not enough research on my part, someday i will make a much more educated purchase but for now it will have to do, as i am currently renovating the entire house. Put in a bunch of new windows which has helped a ton already, still have some more to replace but the worst ones are done and the curtains dont blow when its windy out anymore. Im working on my upstairs now (insulating, wiring, drywall) and in the spring plan on replacing the rest of the windows and doors. This summer will be siding which will help alot too. Between the house being an old farmhouse and the wood furnace being a cheapy, i think that is where my coaling problem comes from. Its not wet wood, my wood is ash, maple, and black walnut (split and stacked for 2-3 years outside) I plan on selling the house after its fixed up to move closer to where i work, So i may just deal with this furnace for now and let it go with the house.
 
Sorry Ziggo, I confused you with another poster on the wet wood. I will say with our old furnace, heat was poor at best with just a coal bed. In order for the furnace to put out any heat, it required wood. Now we have a heat exchanger, and all the heat that was wasted in the old furnace is now extracted in the new.
 
Yes, that is what I have done for a long time. Usually something like a poplar or sassafras split works great.

As I mentioned previously, usually I go further and rake the coals to the center, leaving room to add a split end-on on either side, and then add a second layer perpendicular above it - just like I'd build a regular fire but with the pile of hot coals substituting for the center split in the bottom row. Instant inferno and I'm not late for work.
 

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