too much bar?

[Trapper_Pete]

I have been thinking

are to many saws being sold with too long of a bar for their power?

I just because I got a deal on them and I was looking for lower cost bar and chain for cutting around a barn yard and fence rows picked up an 18 inch bar for my Jred 2255 , the saw came with a 20 inch bar and it is handy , but for constant bucking of logs this 18 is great. I am thinking a good rule of thumb is displacement in CC / 3 = appropriate bar length round to the closes available length.

the 2255/455 is not slowed down in maple with an 18 inch bar , and 3/8 chisel chain just a steady stream of chip.

I figure few people notice and they would rather have the bar length for those few cuts they need it on , but when bucking firewood in the 24-32 inch diameter size and whole bar is in wood all the time. this seems like it is testing the limits of the saw much more.

another reason people may not notice is saws mostly come with safety chain , smaller chip less to pull easier on the saw , but when you get away from that original anti kickback / reduced kick back chain and into a Semi chisel or chisel it is pulling to much. for short periods of time or in smaller wood it isn't an issue. but when you put that in larger logs , cut after cut after cut it is to much for the saw?

I suppose one way to describe it is as duty cycle with a lower duty cycle a longer bar & chain works.
but if you want 100% duty cycle just like in welders where you need much heavier components to handle the heat , on a saw you need more displacement.


what are your thoughts , what is the appropriate bar to displacement ratio?

 

[Gugi47]

I have been thinking

are to many saws being sold with too long of a bar for their power?

I just because I got a deal on them and I was looking for lower cost bar and chain for cutting around a barn yard and fence rows picked up an 18 inch bar for my Jred 2255 , the saw came with a 20 inch bar and it is handy , but for constant bucking of logs this 18 is great. I am thinking a good rule of thumb is displacement in CC / 3 = appropriate bar length round to the closes available length.

the 2255/455 is not slowed down in maple with an 18 inch bar , and 3/8 chisel chain just a steady stream of chip.

I figure few people notice and they would rather have the bar length for those few cuts they need it on , but when bucking firewood in the 24-32 inch diameter size and whole bar is in wood all the time. this seems like it is testing the limits of the saw much more.

another reason people may not notice is saws mostly come with safety chain , smaller chip less to pull easier on the saw , but when you get away from that original anti kickback / reduced kick back chain and into a Semi chisel or chisel it is pulling to much. for short periods of time or in smaller wood it isn't an issue. but when you put that in larger logs , cut after cut after cut it is to much for the saw?

I suppose one way to describe it is as duty cycle with a lower duty cycle a longer bar & chain works.
but if you want 100% duty cycle just like in welders where you need much heavier components to handle the heat , on a saw you need more displacement.


what are your thoughts , what is the appropriate bar to displacement ratio?

Make a picture of your chain, how close is possible from the side and posted here

 

[bfrazier]

Bar length is in part a cultural thing and part a personal thing.

Here in the Pacific Northwest longer bars tend to be more common because that's what we have always used, besides still having some big timber, and the fact that it's mostly conifer soft wood. Back in the day we ran the 110 cc Johnsereds 111's with 60" & 72" bars because we needed them, but those days are long, long gone. Take a look at bars in the Scandinavian countries - tiny! (They think we're crazy, and of course, we think they are.) Eastern & Midwest US seems to have it somewhere in the middle.

Personally a (relatively) longer bar keeps me upright more so I'm willing to trade that for the extra weight. Everyone gets to choose for themselves.

 

[TimberWolf530]

Length sells. If you put two identical saws on the shelf, but one has a longer bar, the average schmoe will pick the one with the longer bar because he's getting a "bigger saw" for the same money. Chainsaw companies aren't stupid, so they put longer bars to sell more saws. It is just my opinion, but I use for a guideline: Under 40cc, I don't want over 14". I use narrow kerf on mine. 50cc, I don't want over 18", but I always use 16", 60cc 20-24". 70cc + for the larger bars. You can obviously use the longer bars, but I just find it slows things down, and adds weight. Anyway, I generally use the shortest bar I can get away with for both weight saving and speed in the cut. I cut just about all hardwood, so with soft, you probably could bump each category up a notch.

 

[grizz55chev]

Look up Piltz hotsaws, he’s a hoot!

 

[TimberWolf530]

Look up Piltz hotsaws, he’s a hoot!

Yeah, but he uses magic to get more power out of a 40cc saw to use a 4 ft long bar. For those of use who didn't graduate from Hogwarts, those bars are just too damn long. You're right though, it is an enjoyable read.

 

[sirbuildalot]

Length sells. If you put two identical saws on the shelf, but one has a longer bar, the average schmoe will pick the one with the longer bar because he's getting a "bigger saw" for the same money. Chainsaw companies aren't stupid, so they put longer bars on their saws. It is just my opinion, but I use for a guideline: Under 40cc, I don't want over 14". I use narrow kerf on mine. 50cc, I don't want over 18", but I always use 16", 60cc 20-24". 70cc + for the larger bars. You can obviously use the longer bars, but I just find it slows things down, and adds weight. Anyway, I generally use the shortest bar I can get away with for both weight saving and speed in the cut. I cut just about all hardwood, so with soft, you probably could bump each category up a notch.

I'm pretty much in agreement with this.

I run 16" on my "small saws" = 40-50ish cc's

I run either a 20" or a 24" on my "big saws" = 70-80 cc's

I rarely ever need anything above a 24", and when I do I have a 32" that the 7900 wears. The longer the bar gets the more unwieldy it gets and more time sharpening and hitting the ground.

 

[grizz55chev]

Don’t hit the ground!

 

[Trapper_Pete]

Make a picture of your chain, how close is possible from the side and posted here

is this what you are looking for?

 

[rancher2]

My main two saws are a 60 cc and a 70 cc I run a 20 inch bar on both with a 3/8 chain so when we go to the timber I only need to take 20 inch sharpen chains. I don't sharpen in the timber. When we are cutting wood I want to keep my helpers busy. A 20 inch bar in my area will do most of the trees.

 

[hedge hog]

View attachment 689829
is this what you are looking for?

Raker looks good !


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[hedge hog]

I think on Carlton chain the gullet needs to be cut deeper to get rid of the chips when running rakers set lower


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[Cody]

The local farm stores around here also sell Stihl saws and they're almost always equipped with the largest bar they can handle, which IMO is usually too big. 441's with 28" bars, 362's with 25" bars. Never look much at the mid range saws. When I wanted to buy a 171 it had to come with a 16" b/c which I didn't want. Also picked up the 193t around the same time so the 14" went onto the 171 which works out great, and I bought a 12" for the 193. With the 14" on the 171, the tip of the bar measures 17" back the the vertical line on the clutch cover so I can mark all my firewood at that length. I got laughed at for using 12" bars over the 16" that came on them but for me logic comes in quite handy.

 

[Trapper_Pete]

I very much agree length sells , when I bought my first new saw that was all mine the MS260 they asked 16,18 or 20 . I said if it will handle the 20 Ill take the 20.

the Scandinavian countries are probably cutting mostly birch , beech , poplar and they probably don't get much over 12-16 inches so having half the bar sticking out the tree doesn't make much sense.

about 2 years after I bought the MS260 I was talking with my great uncle at a family reunion , he ran a MS260 also but not in .325 with a 20 inch bar he ran it with a 18 inch bar 3/8 skip or semi skip chisel chain said it ran better that way that it just wouldn't slow down in a cut run that way.

at that point I already had 2 20 inch bars so I just kept running it that way I would just let the weight of the saw carry it through and it was good but not as fast.

then I got cutting in a place where I had a stack of logs all maple bigger than 20 inches in diameter 24-32 range mostly . come out of the cut move 16 inches to the next mark and back in when cut 7/8 of the way through for the length of the log grab it with the cant hook roll it over and finish the cuts repeat till I run out of gas and gas up every 2nd tank touch up the chain with the file.

the 18 inch bar in the 55 cc saw seems to run very well when the hole bar is in wood all the time and is handling this type of cutting well for now.

a few of the ones I cut last Saturday were more like 36-38 when cut from both sides all the way around I would put the wedge in and the centers of these were just rotten enough that a hit or two and they would pop apart .

the chain in the picture is on the CS2255 18 inch bar and was throwing beautiful chip , it seemed to be clearing fine I had a 2 foot rooster tail of chip .


what I suppose the purpose of this all is , Big bars sell because people see that as potential to cut larger wood but it seems to me a bar properly matched to the power of the saw makes the most sense , and yes if you have a larger tree that you need to cut a longer bar is necessary but dragging more cutters through the wood may not be the best idea

 

[Trapper_Pete]

Raker looks good !


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thanks was cutting beautify Saturday on the 18 inch bar with the CS2255

 

[Trapper_Pete]

I'm pretty much in agreement with this.

I run 16" on my "small saws" = 40-50ish cc's

I run either a 20" or a 24" on my "big saws" = 70-80 cc's

I rarely ever need anything above a 24", and when I do I have a 32" that the 7900 wears. The longer the bar gets the more unwieldy it gets and more time sharpening and hitting the ground.

40/3= 13.33
50/3= 16.67
55/3= 18.33
60/3= 20
65/3= 21.67
70/3= 23.33
75/3= 25
80/3= 26.67

my cc/3 seems to fit most of what your saying

the 16s you have on the small saws probably also don't spend all day buried in 24 inch logs either? it would be more about reach while limbing.

I am just thinking that there is little point to having cutters not in wood and a saw that has enough power to pull that chain at full rpm over and over will last longer than a saw that has is pushing it's limits to pull that much chain.

I am looking at a 70cc saw and thinking while a 24 would be nice a 20 is enough for nearly everything I cut and would be less cost in chain, and bar and give me more hours on the saw.

 

[TimberWolf530]

Raker looks good !


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I think Buckin Billy Ray would say you're not getting down into the gullet enough though. Too small a file maybe?

 

[Trapper_Pete]

I think Buckin Billy Ray would say you're not getting down into the gullet enough though. Too small a file maybe?

that actually is possible I have a stihl 3/8 file and guide which is 13/64 and not 7/32 , I will replace it with a 7/32 file soon

 

[ironman_gq]

that actually is possible I have a stihl 3/8 file and guide which is 13/64 and not 7/32 , I will replace it with a 7/32 file soon

I clear the gullet separately from sharpening the tooth. I'll file a tooth normally then take 2-3 swipes deep in the gullet, when I'm done the side plate doesn't have the half moon look. It's almost vertical from the root of the tooth till it hits the files radius up to the top plate, I usually aim for slightly more hook at the top as well but I'm mostly cutting clean soft wood (pine, aspen) For harder wood a little less hook holds up longer.

 

[user 122190]

To a lot of people the length of the bar means it is a better and more powerful saw. My ms290 is a mean machine with an 18" B&C. Some day when it gets old and tired I will rebuild it with a big bore kit and then I will consider a 20" B&C.