Towing

[Sandhill Crane]

Photo 1, empty truck.
Photo 2, empty truck plus empty trailer
Photo 3, empty truck, one cord stacked in trailer.



I'm not sure about actual tongue weight on the ball, but...
One cord of seasoned Oak is 3,920 pounds.
The steer axles is -100 pounds with empty trailer.
The steer axle -300 with one cord.
The drive axle is +920 with empty trailer.
The drive axle is +940 with one cord.
An additional 20 pounds on the drive axle and -200 pounds on steer axle. Interesting.
The hitch rating is 1,800.
Not sure how to judge hitch weight based on drive axle weight. I don't think they are the same.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

If the ball coupler weight is the same as drive axle weight there would not be lift on the steer axle.
The confusing part is +920 # on the drive axle is 100 # lift on the steer axle.
+940 # on the drive axle is 300 # lift on the steer axle.
The -200 on the steer axle ends up +20 on the drive axle and +180 on the trailer axles.
Gross weight change is +3,920.
Trailer axle change is +4,100.

 

[jetsam]

It doesn't quite add up because those scales aren't that accurate. If you drove through and took the same measurement 10 times, you'd probably see that each scale is +- 100 pounds or more.

For example a 300,000 pound highway weigh scale is usually only required to be accurate to 0.1%, which means a 300 pound difference between measurements is allowed.

 

[ElevatorGuy]

You need a weight distribution hitch. Oak is heavy! Cracks me up when people buy a tractor like mine and forks and think they’re going to move a 1/4 cord or much more at one time.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

I called Cat Scale. She said there is no percentage of error, and weigh to 20 pound increments.
She noted wind can make a difference when weighing. Their scale ticket guarantee is for all weights, and they certify the gross weight.

Yes ElevatorGuy. We have an older 27' bumper pull RV that came with a weight distribution hitch, previously pulled with a Jeep Grand Cherokee. We have pulled using it, and not, with a 3500. I also read air bags vs weight distribution. Air bags can level a vehicle but the physics is the same. Lift on front axle. Weight distribution shifts weight to steer axle and trailer axles, leveling the vehicle if properly set up.
The thing I've found with weight distribution, chain style, is poor backing and tight spots. It can be easily disconnected to do those.
I love the trailer and 16' length.
Tows great and have used it with a tractor, fel and back blade. Long lumber, son rented a Bobcat t55, I loaded a quad and cement mixer, quad and nursery trailer. The ramp is wonderful.
No complaints, just learning.
In hindsite, I would get a gooseneck and keep weight on the steer axle for heavier loads, however anything in the box is then exposed. It's a trade off.
But the steer axle lift is important to know.
Same with tractors and front end loaders. You don't know what you don't know. Until it becomes obvious.

 

[homemade]

Nice work on getting some documentation on your weights. It’s amazing how many people run over and not realize. It would be interesting to see how the trailer was loaded. Could the wood be centered more rearward in the trailer to take some weight off the drives, thus reducing the steer lift.


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[Sandhill Crane]

Homemade, yes.
I did five rows stacked 34" if I remember right, a touch forward of centered on trailer axles.
I can move it back, or go four rows stacked higher, for one cord.
Sometimes I do 1/3; 1/2; 1; 1 1/2; and 2 cord. The larger loads stacking forward of the axle several rows.
I always have stacked tongue heavy to some degree.

+920# on the drive.
What is that on the ball? More or less? At first I thought more, now I'm thinking less.

12' length. If you have a fulcrum at 4' (drive axle); lift 200 # 8' from fulcrum on the long end (steer axle); it seems you would need at 4', 2X 200 # or 400 # to balance.
If you balance, there would be 600 # on the fulcrum.

But... How does the steer axle weight get to the trailer axles?
I'm missing something.

 

[H-Ranch]

You're right that the numbers don't quite line up. It's not possible to have nearly the same rear axle change with a 200 lb difference on front axle. But some amount of error as mentioned would account for it. Or some other cargo that was not mentioned (in bed of truck, fuel level, passengers, etc.)

Roughly speaking it looks like you actually lessened the tongue load with wood in the trailer. That's how the trailer axle weight increased more than the combined weight and appears to move steer axle weight to the trailer. So empty trailer tongue weight is 820 lb and loaded is 640 lb. Again with some amount of measurement error. So empty appears to have plenty of tongue weight, probably a little light on tongue weight loaded with wood as it was.

 

[lone wolf]

Photo 1, empty truck.
Photo 2, empty truck plus empty trailer
Photo 3, empty truck, one cord stacked in trailer.

View attachment 906655View attachment 906657View attachment 906658

I'm not sure about actual tongue weight on the ball, but...
One cord of seasoned Oak is 3,920 pounds.
The steer axles is -100 pounds with empty trailer.
The steer axle -300 with one cord.
The drive axle is +920 with empty trailer.
The drive axle is +940 with one cord.
An additional 20 pounds on the drive axle and -200 pounds on steer axle. Interesting.
The hitch rating is 1,800.
Not sure how to judge hitch weight based on drive axle weight. I don't think they are the same.

Is the cord weight green or dry?

 

[Sandhill Crane]

seasoned/dry.
All other factors are the same. Topped off fuel before weighing each time. No cab or box weight changes.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Roughly speaking it looks like you actually lessened the tongue load with wood in the trailer. That's how the trailer axle weight increased more than the combined weight and appears to move steer axle weight to the trailer. So empty trailer tongue weight is 820 lb and loaded is 640 lb. Again with some amount of measurement error. So empty appears to have plenty of tongue weight, probably a little light on tongue weight loaded with wood as it was.

4920 scaled empty is 820 coupler weight if net is 5,740.
Yes, I had not made that connection.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I have never had Oak that lite. the most I have scaled out on was 45,000 on my C 650. My gross has been close to 60,000. The scale guys CHP would not let me skate through today I am sure. I think when I was hauling Olive. Live Oak seems to average about 5,500 and Pine close to 4,000 lbs. Of course it depends on perc3entage of limbs which matters. Thanks

 

[Sandhill Crane]

The Oak is cut/split spring 2019 to sell spring 2020. I closed due to Covid for one year, but continued processing in 2020 for this year. The firewood is free of bark, probably logs wintered 2018 and processed in the spring. The butt ends are deeply checked, but some feels heavier from the bottom row of double stacked.
Oak is 5,800 green per cord. About 2/3 of that seasoned.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

It took me a while to get to 640 pounds of tongue weight.
Trailer net weight 5,740 plus load 3,920; minus loaded axle weight 9020 pounds.
Still confused.
For one I think I was loaded tongue heavy by a little bit, judging by row placement. Some rows could be heavier I suppose.
Here's the rub.
Lighter coupler weight loaded, 820 empty trailer tongue weight vs 640 loaded.
Front axle weight empty 3,460 pounds (-100 over just the truck); Front axle loaded 3,260 pounds (-300 over just the truck)
In other words, loaded less tongue weight but more lift on steer. ???
The 300 doesn't just disappear, it goes to truck axle and trailer axle.

 

[H-Ranch]

Different loading conditions you've ruled out.

Error in the scales is possible. +/-50 lbs per axle may do it

Were the trailer brakes set differently or did you stop more suddenly one time? The truck and trailer brakes could bind the combination, pulling or pushing on the trailer. Probably should come to a complete stop, shift to park/ neutral and release the brakes to get a true reading.

The tongue weight is the difference between the truck axles unloaded vs loaded. Something is amiss though I agree, since the front axle changes and the rear axle essentially remains the same. There is either an error in the reading or another force acting on it.

 

[ElevatorGuy]

Different loading conditions you've ruled out.

Error in the scales is possible. +/-50 lbs per axle may do it

Were the trailer brakes set differently or did you stop more suddenly one time? The truck and trailer brakes could bind the combination, pulling or pushing on the trailer. Probably should come to a complete stop, shift to park/ neutral and release the brakes to get a true reading.

The tongue weight is the difference between the truck axles unloaded vs loaded. Something is amiss though I agree, since the front axle changes and the rear axle essentially remains the same. There is either an error in the reading or another force acting on it.

Idk, it’s slightly different than a wheelbarrow load no? Again you need the wdh to put some back on the steer axle. It’s underrated how dangerous a light steer axle is.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Again you need the wdh to put some back on the steer axle. It’s underrated how dangerous a light steer axle is.

Last week I was running empty with the trailer on a country two lane doing 55 mph.
A guy passed as we were coming up to a cross road. A car turned right onto the two lane and all but stopped with a car coming hard at him, guessing 70+. I broke hard and the passing car cut in. Very glad the trailer brakes were new, the gain set up well, and I was empty.
Ditches on both sides. It could have played out very different.
Last week I also did a two cord delivery, and was not set up well, having a very light steer. I started researching weight distribution hitches. I would have to relocate the emergency breakaway unit, but not a big deal. We have a wdh on the RV with chain linkage on the bars and the friction sway bar.

 

[Woodchuck71]

Do you have a grain scale close to your house? Where you have time and are able to move the product on the trailer?
I know it won't be the same everytime, but you should be able to eyeball it where you can use the trailer axle as a fulcrum.
It's basically what a WDH does for you.
On a flat level surface measure the front bumper height,( or the wheel well height to the tire) when truck is NOT hooked to trailer.
Your hooked up height should be as close to possible to the original measurement.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

There is a scale at an old feed mill that is now a pet supply. We get a few things there for the dogs, deer corn in the winter and sun flower seeds for the birds. Don't know if the scale is operable.
When loading I stack, and load based on the number of rows and height. Then lay out five or nine pieces along the edge, so I can judge, and stack front to back, and make sure it fits. There is some gain of half a row or more depending on the number of rows.
Now that I've stacked many times, I could come further back on two cord loads.
Two cord loads are the exception, most being one cord or less.
I have measured the drop at the ball mount at four inches with two cord. The trailer settles as well and still looks very level, as does the truck. The only noticeable stress is tire scuffing in some tight spots on concrete. The tires get a lot of side push.
I have not measured the front. Good suggestion.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Were the trailer brakes set differently or did you stop more suddenly one time?

I had not considered that. New to scales. Rolled up slow over the break in scale sections for the steer and drive axle. Then have to get out to press the call button. So none of the weights include me, and I've left the gain at 5.5 for this trailer. Have not used the RV trailer which is lighter, 4,200, but the gain set heavier, which is probably an indication of brake condition.