Tree Entry Problems Sparked A New Approach

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JimK

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When I took up RTC, I was compelled to go into the woods where there's a lot of clutter that interferes with a hand thrown weight and line. My pitiful moments on tree entry turned into creative moments. I've abandonned the conventional weight and line throw. I evolved a different method and designed a new device with two imortant functions not found with a standard throw weight. Though I'm biased towards using this new technique, I'm left completely uncertain if the climbing community at large would find a similar use for it. I'll lay out the features and benefits to see if this makes a connection with another climber. I've used it all summer, it really works and it's really different. Again, I'm biased.

This new throwing device dispenses line on the descent and self releases from the line when trapped. Unwanted pendulum wraps are eliminated. After passing over the target limb, the thrown device typically returns direct to ground - rarely requires line strumming. Errant throws from the ground are easily retrieved (i.e. the probability of stuck equipment is significantly lowered). Devices are packed with ~50 feet of line and connected for entry throws. One feeds the second on the ascent. The second pays out line on the descent. For isolating a branch, a similar device can be hoisted up by the thrown line and released precisely where needed, bringing the line to the climber on the ground. Advancing within the canopy, typically uses one device, because only 50 feet line is needed. Once in the canopy, errant throws are more problematic independent of the technique used. The multiple throw devices are carried and releasing errant throws to the ground is the new strategy where a grapnel catch or pull back are unsuccessful. I climb routinely with three devices containing segments of 50' of 1/8" nylon line. Just to indicate the frequency of this designed drop of a device, I haven't had to release one in 3 weeks, and I climb minimally 5 times a week. Important to note, I've only lost my conventional weight. I've never lost this new device.

I developed this from climbing a specific Black Oak in Cranberry PA densely surrounded by saplings that ranged from knee high on up. Flaking out line on the ground wasn't an option. It's possible to deploy this throw system without line being flaked out. Line is kept packed and feeds out.

This is an avoidance system for the tree entry pitfalls. As a traffic light avoids accidents and gridlock, this new technique avoids wrapping foilage and stuck equipment. However imagine sitting at a traffic light when you're the only car for miles around. Here the benefits of a traffic light don't make sense. On a mowed lawn with an open tree, this system doesn't show benefit. Fortunately, it can be deployed as a conventional weight and line under these conditions.

It's my understanding that the arborists use avoidance systems too - ladder and bucket lift. I also realize that many recreational climbers are entering from uncluttered lawns. Anyone else climbing, that sees a benefit?

Sitting on this new technique and device all summer has left me feeling like a kid not touching the presents under a Christmas tree.


Regards,
JimK
Keep FIT - Fun in Trees
 
Actually this new system of throwing packed line isolates branches more effectively under all conditions. I once set two tie-in points on one throw of the lead line. A bag of line was connected via slip knot, hoisted to the target branch and released.
 
Ekka,

I'm entering the forum remotely and don't have access to my pics. This is both a technique and device.

The rough overview of the technique consists of three main aspects: 1) use ~50' segments of lines 2) connect one segment to the next for length or to drop for branch isolation 3) avoid pull backs of the attached weight. There exists other variations depending upon conditions.

The device in simple terms is a small bag packed with string. In a throw, the packed line travels at the same speed as the device. This keeps the line contained. When the target limb is reached, the dynamics change. The line drags across the limb, drawing out packed line. The dispensing of line on descent eliminates line tension, pendulum swings and the need to strum the line to the ground. An unique feature is that the device is held on the throw line by a cinch loop. It releases when trapped or when the climber pulls in a specific direction.

Throwing 50' of packed 1/8" nylon line makes sense to me. My big question is as follows: is it beneficial for the climbing community? In their respective books, Jepson and Flowers say that the climber has to hammer out their unique style for tree entry. Both authors appropriately skip the pitfalls of tree entry and focus on the climb. If you throw an unattached weight into a tree canopy, it typically returns to the ground. If you throw a weight with packed line, a similar reliability of return to the ground occurs. With the first entry line thrown, it can haul up a second bag of line for a controlled release that isolates a good climbing branch.

When I worked with a tree crew, we did the traditional weight and line throw. Because I climb recreationally now, I took my tree entry into a unique direction. Perhaps, this is the real question: is everyone happy with the conventional throw weight and line?

Regards,
JimK
Keep FIT - Fun in Trees
 
Fifty feet of line will only get you 25' off the ground or up the tree. At that distance any climber should be skilled enough with a monkey fist to not even need another device.

Setting lines with a monkey fist is getting to be a lost art.

The idea of holding the fixed end of the throwline has merit. In order to be practical more than 50' of line needs to go up and over the limb though.

SRT entry eliminates about 50% of the line manipulation in order to isolate the tie in point.
 
Tom,

~50' is what pays out on descent. The climber throws 40, 50 or 60 feet of line in the conventional sense. Whatever is packed in the device pays out on the fall, which amounts to an additional 40, 50 or 60 feet. Think of your maximum handthrow with a conventional throwline. This device pays out line on return, following the apex of your throw. Speaking in terms of ~50' seemed like a nominal value, but it's 50' up and 50' down.

Because additional packed line can be hoisted up your now "100 foot" line in the tree, the target branch is quickly isolated. This part seems to be very effective.

I'll be the first to acknowledge that the conventional throw weight gives the optimal flight dynamics. Though the conventional weight on a line flies well, it's quick to get stuck. Throwing packed line avoids this. It's a different concept. Again, it works well for me. Given an experienced climber that can throw precisely and work the nuances of a line, it may be a wash. This device and technique forgives inaccurate and errant throws. When I climbed with the conventional throw weight, I had something stuck or lost greater than 50% of the time. Now things aren't getting stuck or lost.

Regards,
JimK

Keep FIT - Fun In Trees
 
Gotcha, it makes a bit more sense now. CAn't argue with success.

You might be on the cusp of the next revolution in throw line.

You said that you're using 1/8" line. Have you tried using the smaller lines like Zing It or Fling It? Less volume would mean more line in the same area.
 
Tom,

Thanks for the tip. Smaller line, more slickness spell a signficant improvement. The guiding principle behind this is to throw line, minimizing drag.
 
Self Releasing Weight Design

The design behind the self releasing weight is to loop your line on the top and bottom of a ring. The bottom section of the ring is attached to the weight with a tab. When the line is loaded, the bottom loop cinches against the tab and holds like a brake pad. The climber releases the weight by applying pressure to the top part of the ring, which relieves the pressure on the bottom. The line slides through. When stuck in a fork, pressure loads predominantly on the top area of ring and slips off the line in the same manner. If the weight is trapped out in the canopy, there's another method for releasing the weight. A jerking shock load, acts like a rachet, making the weight slip a 1/4 inch down the line. About 20 jerks later, the weight falls from the canopy. There are techniques that minimize this occurence of a
distantly trapped weight.

There are two significant benefits to use a cinch hold for weight attachment: 1) the climber manually removes it in a quick sweeping motion 2) the climber can create a release when the weight is out of reach, leaving a smooth unloaded line for an easy pullback.

I created this device to minimize lost weights. I haven't lost one yet. Considering the cost of a weight, it makes sense to design it for retrieval. I've noticed that I've significantly decreased twig damage with this method too.

I've attached a photo of an early prototype. Numerous improvements have occurred, but this depicts the two line loops on a ring and the tab attachment.

Regards,
JimK

Keet FIT - Fun in Trees
 
Rich and Jbird,

I'll work on the photo quality. Jbird, you've got it right. The left ring shows only the loops used. The right ring shows the weight attached. The attached weight and line are packed into a small bag. The bag or "throw sock" has been omitted just to keep a clear focus on this cinch attachment aspect. With everything attached and packed, the small bag is thrown. The new features are line dispensing on descent, and the weight can release if trapped.

These are only two simple loops. Loop the top of the ring. Loop the bottom of the ring. The leather tab in the photo has a slit that the line runs through. This slit keeps the line centered on the ring.

Thanks for all of the requests to clarify. I'm not a media expert. I only climb trees.

Regards,
JimK

Keep FIT - Fun In Trees
 
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Jim,

I'm having one of my thick-headed moments...help me out.

I can see what you're up to in the ring illustration. Then, I imagine the same configuration with the weight. How is the bag attached to the line? How do you load more line onto the ring?

If you could show a couple of more pics I think I might be with you.

After judging the Throwline event at the ITCC I know that there are many of us, me included who can use help with TL.
 
The Throw Sock

Tom,

Attached is the very first prototype of the "throw sock". It's gone through significant revisions, but I hope that this photo illustrates the procedure.

Here's the technique spelled out in steps:
1. Attach the weight to the line using the two loops on a ring method. This allows it to be released when trapped.
2. Place the weight in a small bag or "throw sock".
3. Using the figure-8 winding method, pack line into the throw sock.
4. Connect the free end of the line to another throw sock.
5. Keep one sock for feeding line on the ascent. The second is thrown.
6. Pull a bite of line through the grommet to form a cradle loop for the device to be thrown.
7. Throw it like a conventional weight.

Just to clarify step 5, the momentum of the throw keeps the packed line contained until line drag across branches pulls it out. This largley occurs upon descent where line drag start to greatly increase. During the ascent of the throw, line easily pays out of the device that stays with the climber. This works the same as clipping your line mug to your belt during a conventional throw. The line pays out of the bag. Effectively your old line mug is made smaller and used as the throwing device. Once in the canopy, I only need one 50' segment or less. Smaller segments of throw line add flexibility in numerous ways. Try it.

Regards,
JimK

Keep FIT - Fun In Trees
 
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Quick and Accurate Limb Isolation with Bag of Line Dropping

This pic shows the tie method for hoisting a bag of line up the tree. The benefit is that it isolates the target limb quickly and accurately.

Regards,
JimK

Keep FIT - Fun in Trees
 
Tom,

I see the TCIA Expo is in my fair city. I'll look into attending it, but I'll be willing to schedule a show-and-tell meeting with you at the very least.

You can establish contact with me through email [email protected]

Regards,
JimK

Keep FIT - Fun in Trees
 
Can I be in on that? I'm a big fan of innovation and I can appreciate your diligence in your field tests and upgrades and modifications to the prototype. Good work in your effort to develop something to benefit the tree care community.
 
Tree Machine,

Sounds like you'll be in Columbus also. You're welcome to join in, and I look forward to meeting you. Moreover, do I need to scout the area for a tree for a show-and-tell?

How to find a tree at a tree convention. That's a dilemma.

Regards,
JimK

Keep FIT - Fun in Trees
 
The convention center is in downtown. There aren't any trees right close by. If we need a demo space we can find a place at the show floor. There can be time at the climbing tree too. I'm doing the last two sessions there so we can plan a meeting at that time.

The last time I was there they had replicas of two of Columbus' ships on the river. Those are some tiny boats!
 
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