Tree with large black ants

[JJ3500]

I've read some threads on here regarding those dreaded black ants.

Well, my situation is this. I've got an oak tree probably 75 years old in the yard semi close to the house and I want to keep it. I am seeing a lot of large black ant activity coming in and out of it. Now...from what I'm reading on here, they do not necessarily kill the tree. If the ants are present now, does that mean the tree will ultimately die? X years from now?

Is there a way to "evict" those buggers?

Also, I am now putting my wood rounds that I will eventually split for heat near that tree. It is an ideal location (other than the ants).

Thanks for any input.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

I've read some threads on here regarding those dreaded black ants.

Well, my situation is this. I've got an oak tree probably 75 years old in the yard semi close to the house and I want to keep it. I am seeing a lot of large black ant activity coming in and out of it. Now...from what I'm reading on here, they do not necessarily kill the tree. If the ants are present now, does that mean the tree will ultimately die? X years from now?

Is there a way to "evict" those buggers?

Also, I am now putting my wood rounds that I will eventually split for heat near that tree. It is an ideal location (other than the ants).

Thanks for any input.

They are "carpenter ants". They don't eat wood. So, you can't poison the wood like you can with termites. They nest in wood and excavate wood to expand the nest. They "spit" out the wood along with feces, old dead ant part, etc.

However, you can poison the entire nest by providing some attractive "bait" - some food laced with boric acid (roach powder). The right food depends on the nutritional needs of the nest at the moment. Sometimes it's sugar in the form of jelly or honey. Sometimes it's protein, like tuna or beef. If there is too much boric acid they will not feed on it. If you get the mixture right they will carry it back to the nest to feed their fellows and the whole nest will go away. You've got to experiment to get the mixture right.

We live in a log home and have learned these "tricks" the hard way. Every year we get a new attempt at infestation. After years of experimentation, this method actually seems to be working. But, you've got to be patient and a bit sneaky. Don't try to poison the nest too quickly. You DON'T want to kill the ants near the bait site. You want them to carry it back to the nest. If you see a bunch a "drunk" or dead ants near the bait - you've got too much boric acid. Another little trick is to "dust" a few ants with a little straight boric acid. They are very festidious and clean themselves and each other. This will cause them to ingest the boric acid which desicates the insects. There are certainly other ways. No doubt you will get posts about them. But, this has worked for us.

Also, boric acid is susposed to be "safe" for mammals but I'd still be very careful - I can't verify that boric acid is safe for people or pets. AND, PLEASE use this technique only where the nest must be killed to save something you value. Those ants do perform some very important functions in the big scheme of things.

Good luck!

 

[Rookie1]

Id get some gas and oh wait a minute thats for something else.Scratch that. I would do like Single says and do the boric acid thing. Google it to find correct mix.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Boric Acid for carpenter ants

A little goes a LONG - L O N G way. We have been using this one bottle for 10 years to control carpenter ants. It's still half full.

The following searh for "boric acid powder" on Amazon (tools & home improvement) got 10 hits.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_h...s=boric+acid+powder&sprefix=boric+acid+powder
A seach of "All Departments" got 4 pages of hits. I think I got it at Lowes.

 

[JJ3500]

Long way

Wow...over a ten year span? I believe you but that is hard to fathom. I did a search too. I just got to get to one of the two HW stores.

I looked at the tree again today, closely. Seems that they are in hyper drive. Crawling all over the tree. Not so much the bored hole they use as an entrance but all over the bark.

Thanks again.

 

[stihl sawing]

Wal Mart sells some carpenter ant powder you spread around the tree. It works pretty good. They have been hard for me to get rid of. They will move from tree to tree. to avoid the poison.

 

[JJ3500]

Tree to tree

so I'm guessing that if i put future wood to be split stacked within 15' of this tree...its not the best idea...is it? I do this for ease of location. Thats all. I didn't realize the tree was infested by these lil buggers.


thanks

 

[tomtrees58]

post a pic its time for removal tom trees

 

[JJ3500]

Removal

Tomtrees....if you can glance back at my original post, you will see that I stated, "I want to keep it".

Tree is in the front of my house and is a full thick healthy tree, right now. I'm not going to cut down a healthy tree.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Wal Mart sells some carpenter ant powder you spread around the tree. It works pretty good. They have been hard for me to get rid of. They will move from tree to tree. to avoid the poison.

Tomtrees....if you can glance back at my original post, you will see that I stated, "I want to keep it".

Tree is in the front of my house and is a full thick healthy tree, right now. I'm not going to cut down a healthy tree.

THE "trick" we learned about baiting ants is to use so little that they don't avoid the poison but 'eat' it and take it back to the colony. It really subtle point. There has to be enough boric acid to kill the colony but not so much that they avoid the mixture of food and poison or die before they get it back to the colony.

Start with slightly too much boric acid. If they avoid it the mixture is too strong. Important point here, they leave scent trails of safe areas, areas to avoid and the location of food. So, if they are avoiding an area because there's too much poison, a new weaker batch should be placed in a different place - doesn't have to be far away.

When your mixture causes some of them to die or wobble around like they are "drunk", it's only slightly too strong. Then mix up yet another batch, just a little weaker. Once you get it right there will be a large number of ants feeding and a stream of them to and from the colony. Then one of two things will happen. They will stop feeding either because: 1) the colony is dead. 2) or, they have fulfilled their need of sugar and are looking for a source of protein. Most likely because the colony is dead. If they don't take the jelly/boric mix try tuna/boric mix.

We've also tried it the other way 'round. Set out food (no boric) to get their attention. Then add poison 'til they start to 'wobble' and back-off the mix.

I know is a pain in the :censored:, but it works for us. It's only worth all the time and trouble when you've got something really valuable to save from carpenter ants. We haven't found any commercial product that works this well. I'd really be interested in more detail about the stuff stihl sawing mentioned.

Keep a close watch on the leaves and branches. Healthy looking leaves are easy to monitor. Branch problems are much much harder to monitor. Pay particular attention that the branches flex and sway in the wind. If a branch stops flexing it's usually a sign that it's begun to dry up and is likely to catastrophically fail and hit the house, a car or worse. As long as tree stays healthy - I wouldn't cut it down, either. But, you've got to set the priorities about what is safe. tomtrees58 could be right. It might be worth it to have a pro you trust (not just selling you) examine the tree to determine if it's structurally safe. State foresters or your county agricultural extention service will generally give you an unbiased assessment.

 

[stihl sawing]

THE "trick" we learned about baiting ants is to use so little that they don't avoid the poison but 'eat' it and take it back to the colony. It really subtle point. There has to be enough boric acid to kill the colony but not so much that they avoid the mixture of food and poison or die before they get it back to the colony.

Start with slightly too much boric acid. If they avoid it the mixture is too strong. Important point here, they leave scent trails of safe areas, areas to avoid and the location of food. So, if they are avoiding an area because there's too much poison, a new weaker batch should be placed in a different place - doesn't have to be far away.

When your mixture causes some of them to die or wobble around like they are "drunk", it's only slightly too strong. Then mix up yet another batch, just a little weaker. Once you get it right there will be a large number of ants feeding and a stream of them to and from the colony. Then one of two things will happen. They will stop feeding either because: 1) the colony is dead. 2) or, they have fulfilled their need of sugar and are looking for a source of protein. Most likely because the colony is dead. If they don't take the jelly/boric mix try tuna/boric mix.

We've also tried it the other way 'round. Set out food (no boric) to get their attention. Then add poison 'til they start to 'wobble' and back-off the mix.

I know is a pain in the :censored:, but it works for us. It's only worth all the time and trouble when you've got something really valuable to save from carpenter ants. We haven't found any commercial product that works this well. I'd really be interested in more detail about the stuff stihl sawing mentioned.

Keep a close watch on the leaves and branches. Healthy looking leaves are easy to monitor. Branch problems are much much harder to monitor. Pay particular attention that the branches flex and sway in the wind. If a branch stops flexing it's usually a sign that it's begun to dry up and is likely to catastrophically fail and hit the house, a car or worse. As long as tree stays healthy - I wouldn't cut it down, either. But, you've got to set the priorities about what is safe. tomtrees58 could be right. It might be worth it to have a pro you trust (not just selling you) examine the tree to determine if it's structurally safe. State foresters or your county agricultural extention service will generally give you an unbiased assessment.

Good advice, I will try some of you're methods. Also will get the name of the poison and post it tonight. It works but they move around.

 

[wavefreak]

It was my understanding that carpenter ants don't nest in live wood. They are opportunistic and are only there because something else is harming the tree. If he kills the nest without finding the underlying problem won't they just come back? And if the real problem isn't addressed won't he lose the tree?

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

It was my understanding that carpenter ants don't nest in live wood. They are opportunistic and are only there because something else is harming the tree. If he kills the nest without finding the underlying problem won't they just come back? And if the real problem isn't addressed won't he lose the tree?

That's my understanding, too. However, it's also my understanding from Pirone's Tree Maintenance that the heartwood in NOT living tissue.

Ants can completely take over the heartwood if they can get past the tree's defenses through some deep scar, split or other lesion. I believe that's why it's such a good idea to regularly 'deadwood' important trees - so the tree can quickly heal over dead branch lesions. I've seen large ant colonies in otherwise healthy trees. The tree will often, eventually, die but usually due to some other pathogen allowed access by the ants excavations. Or, if the ant colony is allowed to get large enough the tree eventually collapses (healthy leaves and all) because the remaining sapwood can no longer support the weight.

YES, you raise an extremely important point, there may indeed be more to the "ant problem" than just ants. All the more reason to have an expert evaluation done if the tree has to be saved. If not, then bring on tomtrees58! - who's got me interested in seeing some pictures, too.

 

[stihlaficionado]

Wal Mart sells some carpenter ant powder you spread around the tree. It works pretty good. They have been hard for me to get rid of. They will move from tree to tree. to avoid the poison.

Probably why ants have been around for 100 million years plus and humans for 250,000(homo sapiens) -- 2.2 million years...

 

[stihlaficionado]

I've read some threads on here regarding those dreaded black ants.

Well, my situation is this. I've got an oak tree probably 75 years old in the yard semi close to the house and I want to keep it. I am seeing a lot of large black ant activity coming in and out of it. Now...from what I'm reading on here, they do not necessarily kill the tree. If the ants are present now, does that mean the tree will ultimately die? X years from now?

Is there a way to "evict" those buggers?

Also, I am now putting my wood rounds that I will eventually split for heat near that tree. It is an ideal location (other than the ants).

Thanks for any input.

We have a large Japanese Maple w/ large black ants. The tree has always been healthy...I just see it as a symbiotic relationship.