Underwater Logs

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BlackCoffin

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Has anyone ever pulled doug fir out of the water after being submerged for a number of years? Might have a wild adventure of pulling up old growth timber from days gone by, maybe 100 years ago, and just wondering what the wood condition would be like for resale (mainly live edge slabs). Not sure how fir holds up to being submerged in clear lake water in the PNW. Thanks!
 
I’m not looking to make a living with it, just a few logs. I would be working with some federal employees for a “training” operation so I would hope I would be exempt? I will mention to them that moving the logs around could stir up some locals.

Biggest concern is wood stability being under for that long, fir isn’t the most rot resistance and I know water can preserve wood, but I’ve never dealt with it so I’m running blind.
 
I’ll mention that to them, but if they want to still go through and get it out of there I won’t hold them back. I was just going to be the haul away guy. Sometimes federal guys don’t care about county or state boundaries worst case I at least want to check these monsters out. They dive around them all the time and hopefully I’ll get to someday.
 
Guys do it here, with other species. Some legally, some not so much. A few different methods used to raise 'em. Super long-reach crane with a winch, floatation bags.
 
Guys do it here, with other species. Some legally, some not so much. A few different methods used to raise 'em. Super long-reach crane with a winch, floatation bags.
Flotation bags and boat(s) is the plan to get them close. After that I’ve got a few ideas or equipment to use. There’s a loading dock there and may just back a trailer into the water and float the log onto it somewhat.
 
Please take a bunch of photos if you don't think such will become evidence in later proceedings against you :) Always love seeing pics of different projects.

I wonder if submerged fir gets any worms in it.
 
feds acting under fed authority? or Feds acting on their own time?

Fish and Wildlife are federal authorities, Bureau of Native affairs also Federal, Forest Service, DNR... all these guys will want a full inspection of your rectum, and that does not include state or county morons.

If you where playing in the water outside the PNW I wouldn't say a word other then gofer it, but seems Salmon are a bigger deal around here then getting some lumber... so be careful, better yet walk away.
 
I don't know how being Fully submerged would affect the logs.

I grew up on the Columbia River, near Portland, OR, my Family had a Boathouse (floating home) at Big Eddy Marina, the float was built on very Large D Fir logs, it was more than 30 years old when my Dad sold the place :(, the logs were still SOLID at that point, there were plenty of places much older than our's that still had solid float logs.

It was considered very important to have the logs floating at the right level, about 1/3 of the log Faces above water, for the "Health" of the Float, it was believed that too much, or even worse, too little face exposed above water would be detrimental to the lifespan of the float logs.

The float height would be adjusted by adding either 55 Gallon Drums Or Styrofoam "Barrels" smaller floats made of old tires with a foam center would also be used.

Adding or moving Appliances or Heavy furniture could effect the "Trim" of a house and require strategic placement of foam or barrels to level up a house again.

The house floats generally had the logs spaced close enough together that the flotation barrels would nestle between them, and once placed their buoyancy would keep them in place.

Placing flotation was done with a special floating rack that would hold the barrel/foam at the surface under it at one end, then the submerged end would be placed where the flotation was needed, and the Barrel would be winched down the rack and when it reached the end would float up into place.

Placing flotation was a relatively simple matter, but removing it was a whole different story, sometimes, if possible weight would be "Creatively Placed" rather than trying to remove in place flotation, that was one of the advantages of 55 gallon drums, they could be punctured and sunk if need be, and back in the 70's that wasn't the issue it would be today ;).

Most owners paid close attention to floating height of their logs, and I knew of many floats near the half century mark that still had sound logs, but I don't know what a Century of Full submergance would do to a Big D Fir log, but it still could be a very Viable log.

Having that boathouse for a weekend retreat afforded my Sisters and I a childhood that I wouldn't trade for any other. I wish that I had more pictures of the place, it was destroyed by a Fire many years ago, after my Father had sold it, now it only remains in our Hearts and Memories, but What Memories we have from those days :)

Doug :cheers:
 
Thanks for the replies guys, Northman I hear you 100%. We are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to rights and importance around here. And to answer your question it would be feds on federal time. They need to practice floating or lifting objects underwater in case a rescue was required in the future. They said they could try and lift some logs and rig them to a boat(s). I’m sure them doing that is no harm but like you said be careful of removal. I will go over my concerns with them and make sure there can be no foul play involved...at least on my end. You’re all right, a few logs isn’t worth getting fined or worse! My main concern was the structural quality of the log being submerged for that long, but this isn’t an everyday opportunity occurrence so I may just have to wait and see if the day comes.

Another question, is fresh water or salt water better or worse at preserving wood?
 
There are some good videos of salvage logs being removed and the sawn. The Great Lakes have given up some very nice logs due IIRC to the cold water, lack of oxygen, and lack of organisms. The most interesting to me are the recovery of redwood logs (no video I'm aware of) and Maori logs dug from bogs in NZ. It is required a hake be performed before digging them up.

Salvaging redwood stumps was common around here in the 1970s. The stumps were recovered, then washed, and finally slabbed for table tops etc. I helped some guys who had a 12' bar on a floor mounted, electrically powered "chainsaw".
 
Read a geology account of researchers doing sediment cores in lake Washington.
They got some help for a guy pulling logs up fro Lake Washington.
A few years later the guy pulling up the logs was sent to prison, not simply fined. Might try to google and see if I can find details.

Be careful, very careful, I'd not take a twig out of public waters in this state without 15 different permits and the governer's palm print on every permit, plus both senators - AFAIK, that will not happen in this state, don't know about Oregon. I think even the Feds need to pay a 10,000 bond ?

Feds aint gonna give you any protection without a ton of paper for backup.


These should scare you off.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/1995/feb/19/man-convicted-of-logging-ancient-forest-faces/
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/wa-supreme-court/1261272.html
 
Haha well this is sounding like a stay away situation, I already told the guys to look into this and I want no part in it if I could potentially get in trouble for it. Thanks for the link!
 
DW had a line of drums called "Timeless Timber" a bunch of years ago made from REALLY OLD bog timber. Apparently the wood has qualities that are GREAT for drums (and possibly other musical instruments). Good luck!
 
It was considered very important to have the logs floating at the right level, about 1/3 of the log Faces above water, for the "Health" of the Float, it was believed that too much, or even worse, too little face exposed above water would be detrimental to the lifespan of the float logs.

Dry rot is an interesting thing. I know with wooden boats (mahogany) used in the freshwater Finger Lakes of NY, the boats typically rot right at the waterline. The same goes for the "batter boards" that line their docks up there. Dry rot fungus needs a specific level of temperature and humidity and oxygen...too much or too little and it won't grow / eat the wood. And apparently, right at the water line is the sweet spot.

It's interesting to me how the mariners did things in the olden days ... they would sail their ships up into fresh or at least brackish water periodically, which would kill the saltwater wood worms, then go back to saltwater, where dry rot fungus couldn't survive. Of course, anything above the waterline was susceptible to dry rot if not wood borers/wood worms. Saltwater wooden boats normally rot from the top down and from the inside out, rainwater being the biggest enemy and seawater acting in effect as a preservative...

Not to go too far OT...
 
Haha well this is sounding like a stay away situation, I already told the guys to look into this and I want no part in it if I could potentially get in trouble for it. Thanks for the link!
Sounds like freedom died. Why would logs sunk to the bottom not belong to anyone who salvages them? Back in the day my relatives had two house boats floating on logs. One day not long ago the sole survivor told me they got logs that floated down the river. He said his dad knew how to choose them by how high they floated. When I asked, what kind of tree he replied, Choctaw logs. He's very old now. He and his Sister had babysit me on the house boat and I'm 70. He stands by his story. Choctaw Logs are Choctaw logs. Guys down south salvage sunk logs and carve Dugouts. Saw some at the Franklin La. Boat show several years ago. We have way to many laws now days. My family ate out of the hills and swamps. We NEVER took more than we needed for the moment and we never commercialized. We ate Raccoon. Sometimes the dogs would tree 3 or 4. We'd take one. I never shot a sitting bird. Honor was important. Always made a clean shot or let it walk. Respected nature. That was back in the day. We never wasted food. That dishonored the plants and animals. Growing up I saw people respecting things they fear. That's strange. I respect what I admire. If I fear it I avoid it. If it threatens me I kill it. No dishonor in eliminating a threat. That's how I was raised. My grandson ask, is it wrong to lie?
I said to your family and friends but not to your enemy. His school teacher had a problem with that because she had told him it's wrong to lie to everyone. Of course he told teacher that Grandfather knows best. Ha. Ha.
 
Dry rot is an interesting thing. I know with wooden boats (mahogany) used in the freshwater Finger Lakes of NY, the boats typically rot right at the waterline. The same goes for the "batter boards" that line their docks up there. Dry rot fungus needs a specific level of temperature and humidity and oxygen...too much or too little and it won't grow / eat the wood. And apparently, right at the water line is the sweet spot.

It's interesting to me how the mariners did things in the olden days ... they would sail their ships up into fresh or at least brackish water periodically, which would kill the saltwater wood worms, then go back to saltwater, where dry rot fungus couldn't survive. Of course, anything above the waterline was susceptible to dry rot if not wood borers/wood worms. Saltwater wooden boats normally rot from the top down and from the inside out, rainwater being the biggest enemy and seawater acting in effect as a preservative...

Not to go too far OT...
The old sailors also urinated in the bilges if what I was told is true. I'm a sailor. Wet and drying are serious factors in rot and fungus. I burn really well all over the first 3 feet on the bottom of fence posts then tar them while hot. We built pole barns like that. Burned wood must taste bad to bugs and Tar helps keep that earth air at the ground level dry. In my new barn I latex painted some above the ground right over the tar.
With rot in the early stages, like dry rot, white fungus, I sprayed straight white vinegar into the wood rafters. Also, paint auto Antifreeze on rotting boards. Full strength not that 50/50 stuff which is half water.
 
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