vermeer 352 stumpgrinder Turbo charger

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This was so much simpler,( Less Expensive), when we were about talking Mechanical pump & lines systems.
 
This was so much simpler,( Less Expensive), when we were about talking Mechanical pump & lines systems.
They make qualified Diesel mechanics to diagnose problems like this. Why not try one. He could save you a lot of money in a very short time.
 
If I could find a qualified diesel mechanic in my area that would work on a stump grinder, I would. But thanks for the advise.
 
Back to getting this grinder back to work. I blew a turbo charger and replaced it with a used one, it ran great for a month or so then gave out, black smoke all the time. Got a new turbo and it started right up with a puff of black smoke but cleared up in a few seconds. Went to full throttle and another puff of black smoke but again cleared up in a few seconds. Took it to the job and ran it up to the stump just fine. Engaged the wheel and another puff of black smoke which cleared up again. Then I lowered the wheel to the stump and full on black smoke. This time it didn't clear up until I lifted the wheel away from the stump, then is cleared up. I think it may have also lost some rpm when I was grinding but not sure. Checked every hose and line and injectors but no change. I have another bad engine that has the same fuel injector on it that I may try next, but not sure that is the problem. Does anyone know if the waste gate should be opening when you call for more powers or under a load. I can't see the arm move or any change no matter what rpm or when the wheel is engaged. its a brand new turbo so I assume the waste gate if fine, but if it should be opening and closing, what would cause it to operate or not operate. Does the turbo or fuel pump have any electronic trigger to push more or less fuel? What triggers the waste gate and how can I test it?
 
Start with basics...its either over fueling or not enough boost. no/low boost is the easiest to check out with your limited knowledge of diesel engines.

1. start by check for and correcting any exhaust leaks between the engine and the turbo. exhaust gases that escape without passing thru the turbo is lost boost

2. check the fresh air supply starting with ensuring it has a clean filter. Use brand name filters because the cheap ones are often times too restrictive or poorly made. follow all you plumbing from the air filter housing to the turbo...remember there is "suction" on this side of the turbo so any oil saturated rubber hose that feel soft should be checked to be sure they arent collapsing when the turbo starts to spool up. Check all hoses and connections between the turbo and the intake,this side of the turbo is pressured up so any places that there is a rip/tear/hole in the hose or a bad gasket/missing plug in the intake needs repaired/replaced because you will be losing your boost.

mechanical engines often times give a puff of black smoke at start up and when first throttled up, its normal. continued black smoke at full throttle is overfueling or low/no boost. they will also blow some black smoke if you are lugging them while at WOT.

new turbo i wouldnt suspect anything wrong with the wastegate but

CHECKING WASTE GATE ACTUATOR 1. Disconnect the waste gate actuator hose at the actuator. 2. Connect pressure/vacuum pump, Tool #19493. 3. Apply pressure of 14.2 psi (0.9 bar) and ensure that the rod and link operate. 4. When pressure is released rod and link must return to original position. NOTE: DO NOT apply pressure more than 21.3 psi (1.5 bar) to the waste gate actuator or the diaphragm will be damaged. 5. If the actuator hose is damaged or cracked it must be replaced.
 
Back to getting this grinder back to work. I blew a turbo charger and replaced it with a used one, it ran great for a month or so then gave out, black smoke all the time. Got a new turbo and it started right up with a puff of black smoke but cleared up in a few seconds. Went to full throttle and another puff of black smoke but again cleared up in a few seconds. Took it to the job and ran it up to the stump just fine. Engaged the wheel and another puff of black smoke which cleared up again. Then I lowered the wheel to the stump and full on black smoke. This time it didn't clear up until I lifted the wheel away from the stump, then is cleared up. I think it may have also lost some rpm when I was grinding but not sure. Checked every hose and line and injectors but no change. I have another bad engine that has the same fuel injector on it that I may try next, but not sure that is the problem. Does anyone know if the waste gate should be opening when you call for more powers or under a load. I can't see the arm move or any change no matter what rpm or when the wheel is engaged. its a brand new turbo so I assume the waste gate if fine, but if it should be opening and closing, what would cause it to operate or not operate. Does the turbo or fuel pump have any electronic trigger to push more or less fuel? What triggers the waste gate and how can I test it?
Jim,a waste gate valve is nothing but a boost regulator,it is mechanical not electrical as far as i know,no wires running to it.What it does is when the engine is under load,and the boost exceeds the turbos parameters,it by passes the boost,to the exhaust side.You won't build up boost with no load.To check if it works it should be connected to either the pressure side of the turbo or intake manifold,disconnect line from there and blow into it or use low compressed air like 10/15 psi,you should see rod from valve move.If it doesn't move take it off and try again and see if it moves,while it's off check and see where it's connected to moves,that might be frozen or binding up,should move freely .If frozen or binding hit it with Blaster or WD40 to free up,could be your problem.
 
Hey Joe, Thank you. I was going to call you but didn't want to be a pest. I'm thinking that the stump grinder worked fine with the used turbo on it before it crashed. Then all smoke all the time. Then I put the new one on and it only smokes when under load. Makes me thin that I may have done something that may have caused this lastest thing. I replaced almost all the gaskets and checked and
cleaned most of the pipes and hoses. Those that were iffy, I replaced with the ones that were in good shape from the old engine I had. I sprayed every connection with carb cleaner
to see if anything was leaking but there wasn't. Haven't had a lot of time lately, but I'll have to get it running right soon. I'm going to order all the hoses and pipes and replace them with new ones, then I suppose I may take the fuel pump off the other engine and give t
 
So I haven't had much time to fool around with this machine but I did get it back together with a new turbo charger, hoses, gaskets, air filter and fuel filter and fuel injectors. Started it and it runs fine but seems to put out a bigger than normal puff of black smoke when starting and when accelerating. Then clears up and runs fine, but when the wheel makes contact with a stump the black smoke gets thick and seems to loose RPMs. So today I took it apart again and noticed the fan on the new turbo was frozen, So I took the turbo off and there was a lot of carbon build up in the turbo which may explain why the fan wouldn't turn. I freed up the fan and it seems to move freely now and doesn't seem to have much play. But before I put it back together, I'm wondering how that much carbon could build up in the short amount of time I had it running, I tested it on 2 or three stumps, that's it. Maybe the fan jammed as soon as I first turned it on and may have contributed or maybe the carbon caused the fan to jam. Anyway, I really can't afford any more turbos and want to put this one back on, but I would like to put it on clean and free from any build up to see if it happens again. Can I rinse the turbo out with acetone or something to get it fairly clean and moving freely before I put it back? Should I bother putting this one back on or get it rebuilt or something.
 
(So I haven't had much time to fool around with this machine but I did get it back together with a new turbo charger, hoses, gaskets, air filter and fuel filter and fuel injectors.) So I took off the new turbo and freed up the fan. Figured the oil may not be lubricating enough so I checked the oil pressure and it was right where it was suppose to be (5 bars). Not sure where to go from here. There is a breather tube coming off the valve cover that marries the air intake to the turbo. I don't know that it means anything, but I pinched to tub just to see if I could duplicate the problem. Smoke did come out the exhaust but it was much lighter smoke, light blueish. Could a stuck or clogged valve cause this? It runs pretty good until it starts to cut the stump, then black smoke. Seems the turbo isn't going into boost. After I ran it the last time, I checked the fan in the turbo and it hadn't frozen like the last time and seemed to move freely.
 
I'm getting ready to sell this stump grinder but I wanted to fix it first. Hate to stick anyone with my junk./ It runs very well, but when you put the cutting wheel on a stump, it smokes . Put on a new turbo, filters, fuel injectors, and many hoses etc. Still smokes when it touches wood. Not sure if the turbo is working properly but it doesn't seem to go into boost when laboring. The only strange thing I can see is, the valve cover has a breather tube coming out of it that marries up with the intake tube going into the turbo. If you disconnect that tube, steady smoke, not very heavy, comes out of the valve cover leaving some oil on the intake side of the turbo. It might be normal, I don't know. But one of the many mechanics that have looked at it, disconnected the intake hose and saw a little oil in the turbo and said the turbo was no good. The turbo was brand new. I have another new turbo, but I don't want to put it in unless I know the current turbo is bad, they are very expensive. Anyone got any clues?
 
Your black smoke is an overfuelling condition. The governor in your injection pump is a load sensing unit, so, when rpm decreases from what you have it set at due to load, fuel rate increases to bring it back to the desired rpm. A puff of black is normal on startup with a mechanical pump, as the governor is at max fuel trying to turn cranking speed into idle speed.
I can't find any good pictures of your engine, but it looks to have a non boost referenced pump, so if you don't have enough airflow it is going to smoke like a banshee.
The valve cover breather hose is an emissions item, soley so that the blowby gets burnt. It shouldn't cause an overfuelling condition unless the engine is very worn out, and if it starts eating it's own oil, it is going to run away, not smoke black under load.
You need to get a boost pressure guage on this unit, so you can verify that the turbo is actually doing anything, and that the wastegate is functioning. You could even try temporarily wiring the wastegate shut to make sure it isn't opening prematurely, but, I would not do it without having a guage on it.
What are you running for oil in this engine, and how old is it? Have you verified that the turbo oil drain is free of obstructions and flows freely?
Turbos don't just go bad, and some shaft play is OK, as long as the wheel doesn't touch the housing it is runable, with the engine running, the film of oil in the bearing tightens up the clearance and will keep the shaft centered.
If the turbo bearing isn't getting coked up, I think you may have a fuel rate issue rather than an actual turbo problem, however I have never personally seen the exhaust side of a turbo get caked up with soot to the point it wouldn't spin, even with severe overfuelling they usually just try harder and keep spinning.
 
Thank you for responding 82F100SWB. You were very helpful and it gives me a couple more things to try before tampering with the engine rings. It all started with a total failure of the turbo, black carbon all the time. I put a used turbo in and it was fine for a month or so then black smoke under load. I replaced it with a new one and no improvement. When I took off the intake hose I just tried to spin the fan to see if it was freely spinning and it appeared to be frozen. I tried harder to spin it and it finally freed up. I bought it to a diesel mechanic who looked checked the intake and he saw some oil in the intake pipe and looked at the fans and said that turbo was junk. I bought another turbo but didn't install it yet. Because there was no change when I first installed the turbo, I thought it was probably something in the injection pump. But if I damaged the turbo, I might have 2 problems. A local mechanic told me that there shouldn't be any oil on the intake side of the turbo, which there was so he convinced me that the rings or maybe a valve problem so I was considering an engine rebuild. I use motella synthetic 5-40 oil and change it regularly. Haven't run it since the last change so the oil is fresh. I didn't know there was such a thing as a boost pressure gauge, that will be my next step. I really appreciate your response, thank you
 
With the crankcase venting tied into the air intake, there will always be some oil in the intake side of the turbo, usually not a large amount, but there will always be some condensing out of the crankcase vapours.
If it starts well and runs smoothly without any popping sounds out the intake or exhaust you can usually rule out compression or valve issues.
 
There was only a few drops of oil in the intake. There is no popping and it runs fine but doesn't amp up when cutting a stump. There seems to be a little blue smoke, but mostly black. One more simple question, if the rings were worn enough to lose only a small amount of compression, could that keep the turbo from building enough pressure to "boost"?
 
So I finally ran down the problem with the smoking vermeer. When this problem started, I replaced the turbo with a new turbo, an off market brand, but that didn't cure the problem. So I started my epic search, replacing everything and working back and forth thru the system to eliminate what was wrong. Finally a mechanic suggested the rings may be leaking and that I should rebuild the engine. That was pretty much out of the question. I had the chance to buy another new turbo, the OEM version so I did. Replaced it and it worked perfect. Seems the first "new" turbo, wasn't working properly. Looks like the fins on the fan may have been damaged. Just assumed that the new turbo was working, because it was new and never thought to go back and check it out. Very expensive and wasted a whole lot of time.
 
So the long epic of the failed turbo continues. I put a new OEM turbo in and it worked perfect for about one month. In the middle of a job, it suddenly started smoking black when I made contact with the stump. I put it away for a while and when I went to move it, black smoke all the time, turned the snow around it carbon black in seconds. So I took it all apart and replaced a few hoses and the air filter system, no more black smoke. But now it smokes blue smoke. I hate diesels and turbo chargers. If anyone lives anywhere near the south shore in Massachusetts and has a diesel guy, I'd love to meet them.
 
So I finally changed the engine in one of my vermeer 352s from diesel to gas. The day I got it home, I went to start the other machine (I have 2 vermeer 352) which is still a diesel and it started to smoke. Actually it started to shoot oil out the exhaust. I checked the dip stick and found it shooting oil out when I took the stick out. I immediately thought the rings were shot. It stopped throwing the oil out of the exhaust after I changed the oil from 5 - 40 to a 5 - 30 weight. Probably had nothing to do with it, but that's what happened. Runs fine and doesn't smoke anymore but there is still a lot of pressure pushing the oil up the dip stick. Then I remembered a spoke to someone on this board a few years ago about the oi pressure problem on this Diahtsu engine and what caused it on his machine, something simple as I recalled. But my recollection only went that far and can't remember any other details and can't find it in any posts. This engine only has less than couple of hundred hours on it. Anyone have any ideas. The gas engine in the other machine costs $10000. Don't think I want to o that again.

If you check oil and is making oil ,which means it is rising on dip stick,you might have a bad injector,or pump over fueling,but you would have black smoke all the time.You might want to check hose and clamps from the pressure side of the turbo to the intake for cracks and leaks.
 

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