Want to plant hardwoods, should I start with 12” seedlings or 4-6’ trees?

[Newbietreefarmer]

Hey all, I’m interested in planting a variety of hardwoods on some VT land. Mainly Black Walnut, Black Cherry and Northern Red Oak but I’m open to suggestions for valuable timber.

I’ve done a lot of homework already, figured out spacing on how to build a pond and a drip arrogation. I’ll also be working with a forester once I actually get going. That said I’m no expert.

I see options to buy 6-12” seedlings up to 5-6’ trees. Now what I’m wondering is how much faster will a 5-6’ tree reach maturity than would a 6-12” seedling? I’m looking at 4-5’ or 5-6’ trees, it seems like they are less vulnerable to rodents and deer eating them.

I know this would be a very long term investment but I look at this as a legacy investment, something that I can pass the proceeds on to the next generation. Considering the value of land to the value of timber the potential profits are very solid. Thanks!

 

[ElevatorGuy]

Maturity is going to take 30-40 years, I would stick with the much cheaper seedling option.

 

[Newbietreefarmer]

Maturity is going to take 30-40 years, I would stick with the much cheaper seedling option.

Thank you for your advice, this is a mix of planning for retirement and helping family. 30-40 years is fine, I figure following good advice, watering and fertilizing will help them grow big and strong. I figure trees are insurance against me living too long haha. I’d also like to make some money for my nephew. He’s special and will need 24/7 care his whole life, I’d like to help my brother and his wife when they’re too old to care for him.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I'd not imagine 5-6 ft trees are inexpensive?

How many acres are you trying to plant?

I've had much better luck with smaller trees surviving.

 

[catbuster]

Seedlings, or just seeds, are the way to go for planting large acreages. It doesn’t take long for them to reach 5-6 feet if they’re spaced appropriately.

The 5-6 footers are predominately used by landscapers who are looking for a type of tree and don’t have the time to let a tree grow.

 

[northmanlogging]

Hey all, I’m interested in planting a variety of hardwoods on some VT land. Mainly Black Walnut, Black Cherry and Northern Red Oak but I’m open to suggestions for valuable timber.

I’ve done a lot of homework already, figured out spacing on how to build a pond and a drip arrogation. I’ll also be working with a forester once I actually get going. That said I’m no expert.

I see options to buy 6-12” seedlings up to 5-6’ trees. Now what I’m wondering is how much faster will a 5-6’ tree reach maturity than would a 6-12” seedling? I’m looking at 4-5’ or 5-6’ trees, it seems like they are less vulnerable to rodents and deer eating them.

I know this would be a very long term investment but I look at this as a legacy investment, something that I can pass the proceeds on to the next generation. Considering the value of land to the value of timber the potential profits are very solid. Thanks!

Plant em small, plant a lot of em, a little mortality won't be a bid deal, plant em tall... yer gonna spend an obscene amount of money, and the mortality rate will likely be about the same, but hut a lot worse.

 

[Newbietreefarmer]

I'd not imagine 5-6 ft trees are inexpensive?

How many acres are you trying to plant?

I've had much better luck with smaller trees surviving.

Yeah 5-6 footers are 3-4x more than 2-3 footers, I’ll probably buy smaller saplings and some seedlings. I’m looking at 25-50 acre plots, I’d plant maybe 10 acres of hardwoods over the course of 3 years. I’m looking for land with 10 clear acres and the rest can be my playground I figure. I get 3-4 weeks vacation at my job so that combined with weekends gives me time to work I figure. Thank you.

 

[Newbietreefarmer]

Seedlings, or just seeds, are the way to go for planting large acreages. It doesn’t take long for them to reach 5-6 feet if they’re spaced appropriately.

The 5-6 footers are predominately used by landscapers who are looking for a type of tree and don’t have the time to let a tree grow.

Thank you, that makes sense. I bought a bunch of 4-6’ fruit trees this year and planted them on my property because why not? But I can be a lot more patient with acres of trees. Already talked to a couple realtors about good sized plots.

 

[northmanlogging]

Plant em small, plant a lot of em, a little mortality won't be a bid deal, plant em tall... yer gonna spend an obscene amount of money, and the mortality rate will likely be about the same, but hut a lot worse.

Wow, I'm just full of typo's today...

 

[M.R.]

I’ve found the plugs take off so much better than the
Bare root stock & not quite as expensive as the 3-4 footers.
.
Link for education/ research, this is my area...
Yours will vary...some
https://www.uidaho.edu/cnr/center-for-forest-nursery-and-seedling-research/pitkin

 

[kyle1!]

Fall is upon us so start collecting black walnuts and red oak acorns. Most homeowners are willing to let you collect seed out of their yards..just ask. There is a wire basket on a stick tool that allows collection of seed pretty fast or just use a rake. Float the seed to get rid of the bad ones and then plant. The seeds need stratification or a period of cold before sprouting so get the seed in the ground asap before the ground freezes. Then it is all about weed control. I have had better luck planting seed than seedlings.

 

[diezelsmoke]

Fall is upon us so start collecting black walnuts and red oak acorns. Most homeowners are willing to let you collect seed out of their yards just ask. There is a wire basket on a stick tool that allows collection of seed pretty fast or just use a rake. Float the seed to get rid of the bad ones and then plant. The seeds need stratification or a period of cold before sprouting so get the seed in the ground asap before the ground freezes. Then it is all about weed control. I have had better luck planting seed than seedlings.

This is how I did mine 32 years ago and trees are 8 - 10 " diameter. The only thing I would ad is, over plant and thin out in 10 years trees, will be about 5' +. You want competition, as this promotes growth! It will take 2 -3 years to see them above the grass and replant again in bare areas. Hardly any money involved and you will have a whole lot of less work.

 

[kyle1!]

I know this is not the natural way but you could plant small areas, 2x2ft or so with lots of seed and then cover with mulch and that will help control the weeds. Do this around the 25-50 acres. Can't look any worst than planting seedlings in rows etc Always fighting weeds

 

[madhatte]

Plant many small trees, expect mortality, encourage the ones that prove to be strong and healthy as noted above by several folks is all very good advice. Planting big root balls is a landscaper cheat and not sound forestry practice.

 

[Newbietreefarmer]

Plant many small trees, expect mortality, encourage the ones that prove to be strong and healthy as noted above by several folks is all very good advice. Planting big root balls is a landscaper cheat and not sound forestry practice.

Thank you, a few people have advised me that planting larger trees with established root balls is a bad idea. I planted a bunch of 4-6’ fruit trees around my house this year because I’m impatient and wanted fruit ASAP plus if I sell in a few years they should bump up the value of the land. But when hardwood seedlings or 1-2’ saplings cost 1/4th as much as 4-6’ saplings I thing I’ll go with the smaller ones.

 

[Oliver Durand]

Thank you, a few people have advised me that planting larger trees with established root balls is a bad idea. I planted a bunch of 4-6’ fruit trees around my house this year because I’m impatient and wanted fruit ASAP plus if I sell in a few years they should bump up the value of the land. But when hardwood seedlings or 1-2’ saplings cost 1/4th as much as 4-6’ saplings I thing I’ll go with the smaller ones.
Be careful what you wish for. Fruit trees such as apples, pears and the like attract deer, who might be carrying ticks, who might be carriers of Lyme, Anaplasmosis, or several other locally found diseases here in VT. Best to plant them away from the house where you and the cats & dogs are less likely to travel. Personal experience here.

 

[JTM]

We planted seedlings just over 30 years ago. A mixture of oaks and a few tulip poplar stands. We should have thinned the trees after a few years but didn’t. I have some saw logs in poplar now but won’t see saw logs in oak in my lifetime. If you want to start seeing a return then best plant pines if they are harvested in your area. First couple of cuttings are for pulp wood then after about 30 years you’ll have some saw logs. But if your heart is set on hardwoods you’ll have your work cut out for you. Be careful if you plan on operating equipment between the trees, like bush hogging, you’ll damage them. The good thing about pines is once they get up they tend to keep other things from growing. With oaks I think enough light gets in there making it a free for all and you really have to work hard at getting rid of the unwanted stuff.

 

[ElevatorGuy]

We planted seedlings just over 30 years ago. A mixture of oaks and a few tulip poplar stands. We should have thinned the trees after a few years but didn’t. I have some saw logs in poplar now but won’t see saw logs in oak in my lifetime. If you want to start seeing a return then best plant pines if they are harvested in your area. First couple of cuttings are for pulp wood then after about 30 years you’ll have some saw logs. But if your heart is set on hardwoods you’ll have your work cut out for you. Be careful if you plan on operating equipment between the trees, like bush hogging, you’ll damage them. The good thing about pines is once they get up they tend to keep other things from growing. With oaks I think enough light gets in there making it a free for all and you really have to work hard at getting rid of the unwanted stuff.

You would’ve seen oaks if you hadn’t planted those junk ass poplars.

 

[JTM]

Those junk ass poplars! LMAO, I agree with that but they were on there own stand. Tulip poplar is actually good wood for custom cabinets and furniture. So here’s some furniture my my father in-law built out of it so don’t go hating.

 

[ElevatorGuy]

Those junk ass poplars! LMAO, I agree with that but they were on there own stand. Tulip poplar is actually good wood for custom cabinets and furniture. So here’s some furniture my my father in-law built out of it so don’t go hating.View attachment 856438View attachment 856439

I’ll always hate on them. They’re brittle trees, lightening rods and ****** Firewood. Growing tall super fast, Robbing good trees of sunlight and water. One mans trash is another mans treasure huh?