What a piece of crap

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Actually I like fiberglass handles on “garden” tools like shovels, spades and hoes, but it doesn’t matter what handle they put on a rake; just seems nobody can make a rake that fits my hands… they all just slide right through my grip :D

I’ve broken several wooden handles on shovels and spades (normally ash handles); mostly because I’m using them for something they were never designed to do... such as prying on roots and such. I’ve only broken one hickory handle on a striking tool, a 13 ounce carpenters hammer while trying to pull a 20p pole-barn nail (not very bright on my part). Admittedly I do have to replace hickory handles on striking tools every 5-10 years, depending on the tool. Not because I break them, more because they eventually “wear-out” (for lack of a better term)… they tend to get “dry” and “open-up” along the grain, which causes vibration to travel through the handle, increasing rebound, and increasing the likelihood of splinters. I’ve had my 8# splitting maul for over 30 years, I’ve replaced the handle twice… but I’ve never broken it.

By-the-way, a top-grade, defect-free hickory handle will last 2 or 3 times as long as a lesser grade. Also, a hickory handle with defects, knots, irregular grain, and whatnot will transfer more vibration to the hands and increase rebound. Like the preacher said… “Nothin’ like a good piece of hickory.

Your preacher has firewood sermons!?!?! MAN, you got it BAD! :hmm3grin2orange:
EDIT: Or was that a tool handle sermon? :hmm3grin2orange:
 
Well if wood is so superior to anything else for splitting and force applied, perhaps just make the entire axe out of a piece of hickory (including the head). Then you will have a one of a kind all wood axe that you could just drop on a round and watch the round explode:laugh:

Whitespider, now for more splitting force based on just the handle of the axe is a myth, fairytale, and a farce. The striking force will remain the same on any hammer of the same size, and shape swung at the same speed. Thats just basic physics. Energy transfer and force are two different things.
 
For laughs I should post a pic of my generic, plastic handled, el cheapo, junky, Wal-mart special, hunk of crap, was left in the house when we moved in maul that I use.

...but hey, it splits a log like a mother and I really don't give a s**t what the natives think of it.

Ps, I am thinking of getting smaller Fiskars for the camper.

Much respect for the OP's opinion on what he likes - diversity makes the world go around.
 
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Actually I like fiberglass handles on “garden” tools like shovels, spades and hoes, but it doesn’t matter what handle they put on a rake; just seems nobody can make a rake that fits my hands… they all just slide right through my grip :D

I’ve broken several wooden handles on shovels and spades (normally ash handles); mostly because I’m using them for something they were never designed to do... such as prying on roots and such. I’ve only broken one hickory handle on a striking tool, a 13 ounce carpenters hammer while trying to pull a 20p pole-barn nail (not very bright on my part). Admittedly I do have to replace hickory handles on striking tools every 5-10 years, depending on the tool. Not because I break them, more because they eventually “wear-out” (for lack of a better term)… they tend to get “dry” and “open-up” along the grain, which causes vibration to travel through the handle, increasing rebound, and increasing the likelihood of splinters. I’ve had my 8# splitting maul for over 30 years, I’ve replaced the handle twice… but I’ve never broken it.

By-the-way, a top-grade, defect-free hickory handle will last 2 or 3 times as long as a lesser grade. Also, a hickory handle with defects, knots, irregular grain, and whatnot will transfer more vibration to the hands and increase rebound. Like the preacher said… “Nothin’ like a good piece of hickory.


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Your preacher has firewood sermons!?!?! MAN, you got it BAD! :hmm3grin2orange:
EDIT: Or was that a tool handle sermon? :hmm3grin2orange:

Man, it just hit me. It's no wonder your stacks are so purty, preacher man been teaching ya'll how to be good lil firewooders all these years! :angel: :D
 
Well if wood is so superior to anything else for splitting and force applied, perhaps just make the entire axe out of a piece of hickory (including the head). Then you will have a one of a kind all wood axe that you could just drop on a round and watch the round explode:laugh:

Whitespider, now for more splitting force based on just the handle of the axe is a myth, fairytale, and a farce. The striking force will remain the same on any hammer of the same size, and shape swung at the same speed. Thats just basic physics. Energy transfer and force are two different things.

Yes you want all the weight at the head, as much as possible, with the lightest possible handle that can still work as a handle. The work is in the weight of the head being transferred to the wood being split, anything else is a drag on that happening. The more the handle weighs and the springier or softer it is, the more you are wasting effort into just swinging the handle and not swinging head weight. This is also the main reason the composite handles bounce more with WS's anvil test, more of the kinetic energy *remains in the head*, rather than getting dissipated down the handle. Just obvious...the balance point is right there at the head, not down the handle, with the lighter weight and stronger composites. I knew this and finally remembered where I had seen the video to show this.

Here is the fiskars baileys test video showing why the shape/engineering of the head and handle is superior in fiskars and those similar more modern designed types of striking tools. Just dang those pesky engineers and scientists coming up with something better, how dare they!

It eliminates all this subjective non quantifiable "feel" criteria and focuses on performance. You can *see* it in action splitting (granted, wussy) test blocks of wood. No "feel" needed, proof in the video.

Fiskars X-Series Axes and Mauls Comparison from Baileysonline.com - YouTube

This is the closest thing I have found to a real scientific test. With saws, we have some actual numbers to look at, including felt vibration, and also speed tests in the same wood, that are measured and quantifiable and repeatable. With these axe and handle etc discussions, half of it is "feel" which is HUGELY subjective and I think heavily influenced by nostalgia. To me, the fiskars handle feels just fine, equal to or better than wood, as soon as the brand new out of the box slipperiness of the handle is wiped off a little. Fits the hands good, very little transferred shock. also noticeably lighter in the hands. You can certainly "feel" that. And I certainly "feel" better when I can split three times the wood, three times faster, with half the effort *or less* over the old anvil on a stick! That's the most important "feel" to me! 15-20 minutes with the wood handle anvil on the stick and I "feel" bushed, 15-20 minutes with a better designed and built tool, I "feel" just getting warmed up!

Might as well go back to wood or bone handle and knapped flint/chert/obsidian rock heads as well for that full nostalgia and "older is always better" and feels better fix! Jiss lak gran pappy to the 1000 th generation back used! Can't have any of that new fangled alloy steel nonsense! That's just cheatin' and for girly men who can't swing a manly man axe! Mastodon thigh bone and 15 lbs of sharp rock! And that's just the kindling axe!

BWAHAHAHA

anyway, good video, at least some sort of real world test

Whatever anyone swings, just be happy with it. It really doesn't matter all that much, because hand splitting is just sport after all today. It's fun exercise and we get our heat rom it as well, double win. With powered splitters down as low as 200 bucks for an electric one, no real huge need to hand split anymore. Too big for a little splitter, noodle it or move on to a better chunka wood, that's about it. We hand split because we *like it*. Heck, I'd try one of granpappys stone axes if I had one.
 
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Whitespider, now for more splitting force based on just the handle of the axe is a myth, fairytale, and a farce. The striking force will remain the same on any hammer of the same size, and shape swung at the same speed. Thats just basic physics. Energy transfer and force are two different things.

Whatever... however ya' want to dissect the technicalities.

The fact remains that hickory absorbs/dampens rebound (recoil) and vibration better than fiberglass or steel, which equates to less "energy transfer" into the handle and less "energy transfer" into the recoil, which means more "energy transfer" into/onto the object being struck.
The fact remains that a steel or fiberglass handle requires you to grip tighter and swing harder to accomplish the same amount of work.
The fact remains that a steel or fiberglass handle transmits a greater amount of shock and vibration to the hands and arms.

Why do you think steel and fiberglass handled hammers have a rubber or leather grip and all hickory handled hammers have bare handles???
The answer is simple... the rubber or leather is there to dampen recoil and vibration by allowing a greater grip purchase, something not needed with a hickory handle. In fact, if you watch someone who swings a hammer for a living they will hold a hickory handle loosely, some hold it so loose that they start the swing by holding it at about midway and allow it to slide out during the swing... if ya' tried that with a steel or fiberglass handled hammer it would bounce out of your hand and go sailing across the job site.

I'm not saying steel and fiberglass don't have certain advantages, but they also have major disadvantages...
Everything is a trade-off. If I was tearing a roof off of a building, where my hammer would be used more for pulling nails and prying up boards, I'd use a steel or fiberglass handle (likely steel). But when I started laying the shingles, where my hammer would mostly be driving nails, I'd switch to a hickory handle right quick.
I made my living swinging a hammer for a few years... and I've swung more than a few sledges, mauls, axes, hatchets and ball peen hammers... a hickory handle uses less energy and is easier on the body than any other handle material... hands down. I still remember the first time I tried using a a sledge with a fiberglass handle, bought a 16#er to bust the floor out of the garage at our family lake home... I made three swings with it, and I'm sure it's still laying out in the weeds where I threw it. I thought that thing was gonna' rattle the teeth clean out'a my head... went back to town and bought one with a hickory handle.
 
Maybe it was the estwing hammer, but I used a wood handled hammer for 1 week when I first started framing houses. Never again, I switched to an eswting and never looked back. I'm sure the "tuning fork" design encased in rubber has something to do withit, but I found that hammer to be far more comfortable to swing all day than it's wood alternative.
 
I bought a brand new little boys axe at tractor supply today to keep in the toolbox of the truck and for splitting up kindling. Got home and sharpened it up as it was dull as a butter knife took it out back and on the second swing the head broke off. :msp_sneaky: So I came inside and was going to sit down and write truper an email and came to find out they don't even have a english website. :msp_thumbdn: Guess I will just have to take it back to tractor supply and exchange it.

Before everybody starts recommending a fiskars x25 or 27 I am not a fan of plastic, I don't own a plastic handgun,shotgun or rifle and I would rather have a hickory or ash handle on my axe...

2012-12-01_15-17-23_563.jpg

What about metal? I have had my Eastwing since 1987. I love it and use it all the time.
 
If Estwing made a 36" axe that would be a great thing. When it comes to small strikers, Estwing is all I would spend my money on, wish they made a spike driver.

Picked up one of thier drilling hammers earlier this year, excellent tool.

As it is I use a 36" wood handle double bit and medium single to split. I have a fiberglass handled maul but generally just do not need it. Might pick up the Fiskers 36" if I see one.
 
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I'm pretty much a fan of traditional materials, all of my long handled woods tools have wood handles.
The exception are the small hatchets, I had a Marble's all steel hatchet, with the guard that folded into the handle. It was very well made, I kept it razor sharp as it had other uses other than splitting wood.
I lost it after venting blood-lust on an unfortunate feline, when I reclaimed it many months later, the blood had corroded it badly, I buried it. I have an Estwing now, they use a very good grade of steel, the only real wear item is the leather grip.
I have a Pulaski from my timber days, it has the same old Hickory handle on it from 1977, the tales it could tell.

Any guesses why I bent the handle?

JackPalomino004.jpg
 
If Estwing made a 36" axe that would be a great thing. When it comes to small strikers, Estwing is all I would spend my money on, wish they made a spike driver.

Picked up one of thier drilling hammers earlier this year, excellent tool.

As it is I use a 36" wood handle double bit and medium single to split. I have a fiberglass handled maul but generally just do not need it. Might pick up the Fiskers 36" if I see one.


Tsc has them in their clearance section right now...
 
Maybe it was the estwing hammer, but I used a wood handled hammer for 1 week when I first started framing houses. Never again, I switched to an eswting and never looked back. I'm sure the "tuning fork" design encased in rubber has something to do withit, but I found that hammer to be far more comfortable to swing all day than it's wood alternative.

Without any doubt, you’ll see the biggest diversity in hammers being used at a large construction site during the framing stage. You’ll see steel handles, fiberglass handles, wood handles, rubber grips, leather grips, longer framing hammers, shorter rip hammers, even a few claw hammers, and head weights from 16 to 24, even 30 ounces. Personally, I find the steel and fiberglass handles with rubber grips to be the least desirable… I just don’t like the “stickiness” (especially wearing gloves), and I hate the way they “hang-up” on cloth and leather hammer loops (I notice most guys with rubber grips use steel wire loops). Driving larger nails all day a guy needs to use what he swings well… and I never could swing the longer/heavier framing hammers all that well. I ended up putting the longer hickory “framing” handle (shortened by about an inch) on a standard 16 ounce smooth-faced rip hammer head… the longer handle allowed me to generate a bit more head speed. My favorite “all-a-round” nail hammer is the 13 ounce, hickory-handled, claw hammer carrying the “Plumb” brand name.

Estwing make a quality tool… but I never cared for any of those rubber or leather grip steel-handled hammers, the balance just feels “off” to me. I do have a hickory-handled, 7 ounce, Estwing finishing hammer that I like real well. I have one “special purpose” leather grip, steel handled Estwing hatchet I use around the splitter for cutting the strings of elm and such… “special purpose” because it also gets used as a short pry bar around the splitter (hence the steel handle).
 
aarolar, I hate to be the one to point this out...but the forensic evidence is stacked in favor of the MFG. There are (4) distinct strike damage(dents) in the handle way below where the head was attached.....your aim sucks. Sorry, but you are the guy that non-breakable "plastic" handles were specifically made for;)

I can cast this stone because I own several "plastic" handled tools for the very same reason:laugh:

COLD HARD EVIDENCE:
2012-12-01_15-17-23_563-1.jpg



Next time get a blind guy to spot you before each swing:yoyo:

.....I rest my case

You nailed it that is what I suspected but your eyes are better than mine!
 
I like wood in my wifes hand better

I started splitting wood with an all steel 12lb. maul in '91. Just recenetly got an 8 lb. splitting maul a few years ago and was a lot better with it as far as aim and precision goes. That said, my all steel 12 pounder handle has been mauled from over swings, mainly from being tired after swinging it for a few hours. Absolutely no control with that big ole rubber sleeve on that big ole nasty steel POS. I imagine I may have gone through a few wooden handles in the 20+ years I've swung that steel handled splitter if I couldn't control it any better. I hardly ever look at that sum##### any more, and may even pluck up $40 to buy a Fiskars one day. Glad you got a new axe.
 
Whatever... however ya' want to dissect the technicalities.

The fact remains that hickory absorbs/dampens rebound (recoil) and vibration better than fiberglass or steel, which equates to less "energy transfer" into the handle and less "energy transfer" into the recoil, which means more "energy transfer" into/onto the object being struck.
The fact remains that a steel or fiberglass handle requires you to grip tighter and swing harder to accomplish the same amount of work.
The fact remains that a steel or fiberglass handle transmits a greater amount of shock and vibration to the hands and arms.

Why do you think steel and fiberglass handled hammers have a rubber or leather grip and all hickory handled hammers have bare handles???
The answer is simple... the rubber or leather is there to dampen recoil and vibration by allowing a greater grip purchase, something not needed with a hickory handle. In fact, if you watch someone who swings a hammer for a living they will hold a hickory handle loosely, some hold it so loose that they start the swing by holding it at about midway and allow it to slide out during the swing... if ya' tried that with a steel or fiberglass handled hammer it would bounce out of your hand and go sailing across the job site.

I'm not saying steel and fiberglass don't have certain advantages, but they also have major disadvantages...
Everything is a trade-off. If I was tearing a roof off of a building, where my hammer would be used more for pulling nails and prying up boards, I'd use a steel or fiberglass handle (likely steel). But when I started laying the shingles, where my hammer would mostly be driving nails, I'd switch to a hickory handle right quick.
I made my living swinging a hammer for a few years... and I've swung more than a few sledges, mauls, axes, hatchets and ball peen hammers... a hickory handle uses less energy and is easier on the body than any other handle material... hands down. I still remember the first time I tried using a a sledge with a fiberglass handle, bought a 16#er to bust the floor out of the garage at our family lake home... I made three swings with it, and I'm sure it's still laying out in the weeds where I threw it. I thought that thing was gonna' rattle the teeth clean out'a my head... went back to town and bought one with a hickory handle.

Nope, still disagree, there ya go with "feels" again. Subjective, non quantifiable without some reproducable standardized numbers to look at. How many test "feels" to a lb of head weight or whatever, and transferred momentum and so on. Let's see some numbers to prove your "feel" claims. Oh, BTW, there are numerous different types of synthetic handle material out there, they are not the same, so we'll have to get specific on exact brands and models and so on. and my anecdotal is the opposite of yours, on "feel". I prefer steel or synthetic. so, anecedotal versus anecdotal is a wash here.

With that said, there are numbers out there using testing machines, stanley, plumb, etc, with using actual testing machines and more modern designs, claim their multiple steel and composite hammers, for instance, are better overall than the pure wooden handled. They transfer more energy, with less felt shock, and are much more durable, the combination of factors they have to always look at. it can't be just one or the other, they have to look at all o the above. They look at the pros and cons and that's what they have come up with, for an overall better design. They build the dang things, and have plenty of engineers to throw at this subject, for decades. Their best efforts today you can buy are steel combined with composite, fiberglass or graphite, with specific antivibrational internal designs. Antivibe hammers. Those are their premium designs they make that makes them the premium bucks.

They are well aware of wood handles..wood is their bottom level tool handle material, if used at all, by the various manufacturers. Fiskars could use wood, I think they are aware of this "wood" stuff..yet they don't. I know some of the other guys do, and charge a lot..ain't seeing test results yet, nor used one, so can't comment there, but I am *doubtful* they out perform. I did like that baileys/fiskars test video though...

Not saying hickory (or some other woods) isn't a good handle material, it is, it most certainly can work plenty good enough, it just isn't top of the line anymore. That was then, this is now. Wood is inexpensive and easier to procure and machine, that's it for advantages. It doesn't transfer energy the best, it doesn't offer the most durability, it's not the lightest, and it doesn't reduce felt vibrations as well as the newer designs. That's the real "hands down". You have to look at all the various factors involved, because the tool works as a gestalt of the sub components and design. Wood is perfectly fine, no problems anyone wants to use wood, but real world engineering, proven by the various tool makers, shows that their evolved designs just work better overall, all factors taken into consideration.

if anyone--just talking generally now, addressed to no one in particlar, anyone "you" in other words, can prove otherwise, actually "prove" it, not hand waving on the internets and talking louder, but *prove* it, (you can get published after all in the various science and engineering rags..have to make it through peer review first so get your ducks in a row with your "feel" numbers), I bet those big companies making stuff like hammers would be willing to listen, and if you could change their minds with data, that wood is always better overall to use as a handle, and steel and fiberglass and graphite fiber are just a waste of time and offer no serious advantages, well, you could get *steenking freekin* rich. Companies love to cut expenses, they could lay off all their engineers and just use cheaper wood for all their handles all the time. Yep, you can still buy wood handled anything..that proves nothing other than products are made at various quality and price point levels, and people will sometimes actually pay some for nostalgia purposes as well.

I grew up as an archer. I was shooting a lot before I ever could ride a bicycle. I started with a straight (lemonwood) longbow. then went to a straight fiberglass..hmm, somewhat better. Noticeable. Then fiberglass and fiberglass/wood laminate recurves..hmm..better still..then a first generation fiberglass compound..flat shooting, nice.

Stopped there, ain't shot much since, decades ago, lost interest after one zillion arrows (which also evolved from pure wood -cedar) to aluminum and fiberglass (never owned graphite) but was an active competitor locally and did exhibition/trick shooting for some years running at the county fair, which as far as I went with that sport. The point is, the gear kept getting better as the smart guys threw skull sweat at it.

You just ain't seeing straight wooden bows, made by anyone, winning much competition..nope. They can still be plenty good enough, and beautiful, and feel good in the hands, and bring home the game, can be all hand made at home with just a little sweat and care and wood you harvest yourself, etc..but..they just don't perform the same as more modern designs combined with more modern materials.

I'm not gonna turn down a cheap used good quality wooden handled tool, snagged at a yard sale, etc., of any kind, definitely worth picking up a decent old widget for two bucks, whatever, but I am not going to be paying full price on any new ones unless they have full modern materials and design science incorporated into the ..whatever I am buying.
 
Nope, still disagree, there ya go with "feels" again. Subjective, non quantifiable without some reproducable standardized numbers to look at. How many test "feels" to a lb of head weight or whatever, and transferred momentum and so on. Let's see some numbers to prove your "feel" claims. Oh, BTW, there are numerous different types of synthetic handle material out there, they are not the same...

I'm not talking about feel... I'm talking fact... it's all about the physical properties of the handle material.
I'm not gonna' look for "numbers" (I have seen the rebound percentages... somewhere?) just to win a disagreement with you... I really don't care that much what anybody uses, I was just offering some facts for people to consider.
And no, there are not "numerous different types of synthetic handle material out there"... there is three basic choices, wood, steel and fiberglass composite. Changing the "composite" of fiberglass does little in the way of changing "shock" absorption, it's more about strength vs. weight. Other materials are either incompatible with striking tool shock and stress, or way too expensive to adapt, mold or fit.

But let's have a look at what Seymore Manufacturing has to say (the makers of Link Handles, wood and fiberglass)… Seymore is the largest striking tool handle maker in the U.S.

Tool handles can be made from a variety of hardwoods as well as fiberglass and steel. Each material has certain advantages and disadvantages for replacement handles.

The best replacement handles are made from American hickory and American ash because of their strength, elasticity, and ability to absorb shock. Hardwood handles do not conduct electricity.

American hickory is dense, heavy, and a natural shock absorber making it ideal for striking and cutting tool handles. The long fibers and unique cell structure of American hickory allow it to flex repeatedly and return to its original shape. It absorbs and dissipates shock before it reaches the user’s hands.

Fiberglass handles are strong, lightweight, and do not conduct electricity. Fiberglass, however, is not flexible and does not absorb shock.
Fiberglass handles cost more than hardwood handles.
Link has a line of nine fiberglass replacement handles.

Steel handles are extremely strong, but they are heavy and expensive. They are not flexible and do not absorb shock. Steel handles conduct electricity.
Link does not make steel replacement handles.

If you’d like to read the whole page… here’s the link to it..

Seymour Manufacturing Co. - LINK Replacement Handles
 
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