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What causes a tree to barber chair

Discussion in 'Arborist 101' started by strtspdlx, Jul 24, 2015.

  1. TheJollyLogger

    TheJollyLogger Addicted to ArboristSite

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    No, I think he meant to say holding wood. It's another term for hinge.
     
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  2. SteveSr

    SteveSr ArboristSite Guru

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    Gotta love terminology... We were taught that holding wood is the small section of the trunk opposite of the hinge. I have also seen it referred to as a "strap" and "strap cutting".

    I did a quick search and found this OSHA web site that some might find useful...

    https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/index.html

    It shows the technique that I mentioned MINUS the Open-Face notch. I can't understand why Open-Face has not gained more popularity since it is ABSOLUTELY safer - the tree remains attached to the stump ALL the way to the ground. I guess that it may be the small amount of salable lost timber to the notch but how much is a life worth?

    I just hope that the OP figures this out before he gets seriously injured or worse yet - killed. If you are making Barber Chairs (consistently like the OP apparently was doing) you are doing something WRONG and need to improve your technique.
     
  3. TheJollyLogger

    TheJollyLogger Addicted to ArboristSite

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    There are a lot of good things about an open face notch, and many times when a Humboldt or conventional notch is a better choice. At that point you're straying out of 101 territory, and those techniques are best learned in person.
     
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  4. HuskStihl

    HuskStihl Chairin'em for the sound

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    An open face leaves neither a low stump nor a flat butt. If you need the stick to stay on the stump all the way down, a block face, a Swanson, or sniping the undercut can accomplish the same result
     
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  5. TheJollyLogger

    TheJollyLogger Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Not to mention a siswheel or a Dutchman doesn't work worth a Damn with an open face, lol.
     
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  6. HuskStihl

    HuskStihl Chairin'em for the sound

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    TruDat
    TruDat
     
  7. 777funk

    777funk ArboristSite Member

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    I've always cut about a 90 degree face cut. If you leave a wide enough notch the hinge will stay attached until after the tree hits the ground (most of the time it has to be cut). If you go too narrow with the face cut notch (say 30 degrees), the hinge wood breaks clean before the tree hits the ground and up it goes (barber chair in the face if you're not outta there like you should be regardless of cut style).

    I think this is called an Open-Faced Notch according to this OSHA link:
    https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/felling/cuts/notches.html

    Edit: ha... looks like the answer has already been beat to death.
     
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  8. TheJollyLogger

    TheJollyLogger Addicted to ArboristSite

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    There are times when you want that hinge to break.
     
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  9. 777funk

    777funk ArboristSite Member

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    True and it can also be a safety hazard to finish that cut on the ground. But there's usually less momentum at that point regardless. I usually fell with a wide notch. I get out of there as soon as I see the tree start going so I'm not really in harms way if it did barber chair, but regardless, I'd sure rather not risk it.

    All my cuts are on the ground. Chunking up in the tree would also be a different dynamic. I've got zero experience with that.
     
  10. TheJollyLogger

    TheJollyLogger Addicted to ArboristSite

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    The mindset of "I'm outta there as soon as it starts going" is not a good defense against chair prone trees When a bad chair happens it can be explosive.
     
  11. acer-kid

    acer-kid Argumentative prick

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    Cute.
     
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  12. 777funk

    777funk ArboristSite Member

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    I'll be the first to admit I've only felled approx 200 trees. So Cute may be the word for it. I wouldn't claim to be a pro as many here are. But, I've never had a BC in those 200 falls by using a wide notch and not messing with anything that looks dangerous (hard leaners). Hopefully I'll be to the side or outta there if/when it happens. But, no doubt... the 90 degree open faced notch helps in some cases:
    http://loggingsafety.com/content/barber-chair-tree-kills-logger-0
    If there's not enough angle in the face cut opening the wood has something to pry against and physics says a BC will be much more likely.

    Interesting fact (may be well known but first time I've seen this chart):
    http://tcia.org/news/safety/numbers-civilian-tree-care-accidents-2012

    Looks like 'hit by tree' is the #1 killer. I wonder how many of those are barber chair hits.
     
  13. ILikesEmGreen

    ILikesEmGreen Another crazy Poulan Fan

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    Reading down a little bit, looks like 3 of them were BC's...

    Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
     
  14. 777funk

    777funk ArboristSite Member

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    You're right! Thanks. Didn't read down far enough. I read a little more and it's saying only 25 were killed (media reported tree work fatalities) in 2012. That seems like a small number. Can't believe that's even half. They say 64% were 'hit by tree' so that's 16 and only 3 of those were BC. I'm sure there were a lot more tree fatalities than this. If that were the number struck by lightning, I'd believe it. Tree work harm is a lot more likely than getting hit by lightening I'm sure.
     
  15. BuckmasterStumpGrinding

    BuckmasterStumpGrinding ArboristSite Operative

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    Preventing the barber chair is as important as getting out of there if it happens. There are few things more complicated than laying down a barber chaired tree that is still attached and half the trunk is over your head.
     
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  16. TheJollyLogger

    TheJollyLogger Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Yeah, this thread got a little derailed. Keep in mind, the type of face cut has nothing to do with preventing a chair. Preventing a chair is all about assessment and what you do on the backcut.
     
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  17. acer-kid

    acer-kid Argumentative prick

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    I agree with that for the most part.. The face won't matter. In some instances.. It can.
     
  18. Carburetorless

    Carburetorless ArboristSite Guru

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    Yep this thread is definitely starting to look like a train wreck.
     
  19. acer-kid

    acer-kid Argumentative prick

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    As of ten minutes ago, anyways.
     
  20. number9t

    number9t New Member

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    new to the site, and like this thread. Do any of you make sapwood cuts or "bring your corners in" to prevent barberchairs?
     

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