What is the best style stove, EPA, CAT, down drafter, one with a grate

[naturelover]

There isn't any point in the burn cycle of my 30 that I can lay my hand on top of the stove. It never gets below 250 stovetop once it gets started.

If you decide, I'd be getting an el-cheapo infrared thermometer or a magnetic flue thermometer, and place it near the center of the stove (best placed in front of the step on the 30) to get some temps during the burn cycle.

 

[stihl sawing]

You won't be banned but you will receive a warning with points toward a ban. I don't have a clue what the argument is about but there will be no language as you just posted. Another post like that and it will be some time off.

 

[Ronaldo]

There is no point in my Pacific Energies burn cycle that I can lay my hand on top of the stove......without getting burned seriously.
The coal bed can be burned down quite low and the stove is still hot.
Something sounds very fishy.

 

[Whitespider]

stihl sawing,
Understood... no complaints.

 

[stihl sawing]

stihl sawing,
Understood... no complaints.

Good, Thank you.

 

[Whitespider]

Something sounds very fishy.

L-O-L... Heck, I ain't ever even cooked fish on that stove... but I might try burnin' some in it.
*

 

[Ronaldo]

L-O-L... Heck, I ain't ever even cooked fish on that stove... but I might try burnin' some in it.
*

Make sure it is well seasoned--------at least one year or it wont do well in these new stoves. Ha Ha Ha Sorry, I couldnt help myself!

 

[Eric Modell]

Over at the other forum there was some raving going on about Blaze King. May want to look.

I think if time goes on long enough I will buy a blazeking just to see what all the raving is about. They get twenty four hour burns, we get two hour burns when it is cold!!

 

[stihl sawing]

I think if time goes on long enough I will buy a blazeking just to see what all the raving is about. They get twenty four hour burns, we get two hour burns when it is cold!!

Yikes, Our Vermont will go about 7 to 8 hours on a good fill up.

 

[Eric Modell]

Yikes, Our Vermont will go about 7 to 8 hours on a good fill up.

It is good thing we do not live up north. Our house is draftier then spiders garage.

 

[stihl sawing]

It is good thing we do not live up north. Our house is draftier then spiders garage.

Yeah same here, my house would not survive the northern part of the country.

 

[woodchuck357]

I've got a question.

It isn't meant to take any sides in this Battle-Royale going on here, but might be quite relevant to the original thread topic.

Out of curiosity, I googled Spideys stove, and the specs that I found for it for output say:

Heat Output Cord Wood (BTU)72,000 BTU
Heat Output EPA (BTU)36,600 BTU

That's quite a variance, once is double the other. So excuse my ignorance - but what do those figures mean and why do the vary by so much? Does it mean that measuring the 'EPA way' is only done using half a load of fuel? Measured heat output should be measured heat output - do all 'EPA' stoves list output that way?

I haven't read even most of the posts in this thread, so someone may have brought it up before but here goes: The stoves are tested for EPA compliance with kiln dried pine LUMBER. They don't test with firewood.
Seriously, the 72,000 figure is the probably total BTU tied up in the wood and the 36,600 is the heat that gets into the room.

 

[woodchuck357]

Back to OP topic what Epa stove will bridge the gap between my situation and spiders. Spider wants no part of modern stoves, we need to be cautions because we currently do not have wood cut ahead but do have a unlimited supply of timber in the neighbourhood. My wife and 96 year old great grandma have been burning wood here on he farm since 1950, I did not start until the seventies. We have a history of cutting during the winter months and have not yet learned the virtues of ageing or seasoning the wood. We have nothing against the practice, just have not been in the rhythm. We ask the question which EPA stove will not leave us cold if our wood is not perfect. I am getting older and my wife, and great grandma do help gather wood any more. The Joutul, and and Englander are on my short list. I see the virtue in modern engineering but some of us must move forward slowly. My first winters wood was cut and spit with a axe. My second and third winters wood was harvested with a bow saw. We now have many saws mauls and a splitter, we have come a long way.

If you are burning wood that has not had time to dry you are going to need a stove with at least part of the air supply coming in under the fire, some models of either brand will do the job. I would go with a stove that is set up with outside air ducted to the stove if possible, there will be less drafts and heating efficiency will be enhanced. I also like a grate with a separate door for the ash pan.

 

[Whitespider]

...we get two hour burns when it is cold!!

I'd be ecstatic with a 2-hour-burn... if it would heat for 2-hours

Seriously though, I agree with stihl sawing... YIKES‼
In the boxes I've used over the years (non-EPA type) I haven't noticed that the amount of wood increases burn time all that much, but the type of wood does. Loading them with more wood just makes more heat over the same length of time (at comparable stove settings); loading them with oak, rather than pine, adds several hours burn time. Burn times shorten when it gets cold out; not because it's cold out, but because the user sets the controls for a more "robust" fire... you're extracting heat at a faster rate.

We've been burning mostly hard maple in the furnace for the past 6 weeks or so. It don't matter if I toss in 4 or 5 splits on a 30° day, or fill the box to the gills on a 0° day, we go about 7 hours between re-loads... oak will give me 8+ hours, elm around 6 hours. But that draft blower will eat some wood in a hurry, like a full load of that hard maple in 3 hours if I screw up and let the house cool down too much... but man does it make heat‼ As long as I load the box before bed the draft blower don't run much, just a little in the morning. But if I do what I did last night, which is fall asleep before loading the box... it's 61° in here this morning and that draft blower is working overtime to bring the house up to 71°. Still, when I think about it, the amount of total wood burned don't change all that much... I mean, not much difference between loading it once last night and once this morning, or loading it twice this morning (shrug).
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[Bushmans]

You guys can have all that EPA/CAT stuff. I'm gun shy on all of it since I've joined here.
Expensive, have to replace parts, have to fiddle with things.
I love my old stove. Efficient? I'm told no. For my requirements? Good enough.

I was always curious about ratios on the burns though.

For instance, last night around 9 pm I loaded the stove. I had a great bed of coals already established. The house was at 72 degrees. I placed 2 splits (5" average) of three year old ash left to right then I placed two more on top of those fore and aft with a slight angle because the box isn't deep enough and then I placed a top piece on that. My top piece is usually the split off the side of the log that is around 8/9" wide but only 2" thick.
I cracked the doors open, opened the inline flue damper to full and let her rip till I had some killer flames going. Closed the doors, shut the damper and opened the air flow dials on the doors to just over 1/4 turn and walked away.
This morning I awoke and as usual the first thing I do is check the thermostat in the hallway right outside my bedroom door. 74 degrees at 6am. (I slept in)
"Nice", I thought to myself. I went downstairs to feed the dogs and let them out and while they were doing their business I opened the doors to a still fairly decent bed of coals. I stirred them up but did not put anymore wood on it. 74 is good enough for me. The fan was still running and blowing out warm air. It is set on a snap disc thermostat control so the steel was still putting out good heat. The coals were glowing well enough that should I have put a few splits on there they would have caught fire within a few minutes. The temps went down to 9 last night with a 3 mph wind.
That is around 9 hours of heat off 5 splits.

Now tell me what would a "smart" stove have done in this instance. I know you can't nail it down but you have the temps, the wood species, the hours. The house was built in 1980, bi-level with crappy windows that I have plastic over. Average insulation.
Again I am not a hater because I can't be without experience, just skeptical is all!

Would I have had a longer burn time?
Would I have had more heat? Temp would have been 76 instead of 74?
Could I have done that with 3 splits instead of 5?

 

[Whitespider]

Now tell me what would a "smart" stove have done in this instance.
...I am... just skeptical is all!

Would I have had a longer burn time?
Going off my experience, using only one "smart" stove (extensively)... the answer is NO‼

Would I have had more heat?
Going off my experience, using only one "smart" stove (extensively)... the answer is NO‼

Temp would have been 76 instead of 74?
Going off my experience, using only one "smart" stove (extensively)... the answer is NO‼

Could I have done that with 3 splits instead of 5?
Going off my experience, using only one "smart" stove (extensively)... the answer is NO‼

Going off my experience, using only one "smart" stove (extensively) ... you'd have been cold this morning, and likely quite pizzed-off.
Skepticism is a good thing; always question when the words "newer" and "better" are used in the same sentence, or claim... ain't nothin' automatic about a relationship between the two (same goes for "older" and "better"). Everything is a trade-off to some certain degree; to gain something, you must give up something... and that is something you can always count on. It's never a matter of "better"... it's a matter of if what you gain, is worth more to you than what you give up.
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[Oxford]

Well, I would say that depends.

On the one hand, if you took the time to research the proper stove for your application, including consultation with an actual dealer (!) or manufacturer (!!) in order to match the output of the stove to your application, and then spent the money to properly install and operate it, I would say that chances are very good that your home would be equally comfortable on less fuel, and you would probably pollute less in the bargain, as the experience of several members here would suggest.

On the other hand, if your research consists of answering the question "What will somebody GIVE me?" and you then install it with your own modifications and operate it by your own sequence of operation, apparently revealed on stone tablets on the banks of the Cedar River, which combination turns out to not satisfy your every desire, then you will have ample opportunity for whinin' and moanin' about those no-good EPA stoves and the government parasites that spawned them. As a happy coincidence, this might fit some carefully held and nurtured beliefs, which will doubtless be written on the inside of a tinfoil hat. Also a happy coincidence: you can then spin the whole experience, in a wonderfully bombastic style best described as Proudly Ignorant but Completely Infallible, to make people skeptical of proven technology. After all, those reputable companies who design and build stoves and the dealers who stake their livelihoods on them are fully committed to the business model of making and selling equipment that doesn't work.

Stand by for outraged BS in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1........

 

[NSMaple1]

I hate to break it to you guys, but it has been proven time & time again, emperically & emphatically, that it is impossible to Win The Internets......

 

[sunfish]

You guys can have all that EPA/CAT stuff. I'm gun shy on all of it since I've joined here.
Expensive, have to replace parts, have to fiddle with things.
I love my old stove. Efficient? I'm told no. For my requirements? Good enough.

This is the reason I wanted and got a Jotul, no cat or refractory to replace. Just a door gasket that might need replacing at some point (it's fine after 6 years). Also very simple air control & the 118CB I have works just like the old stoves, but has secondary burn air that can be used if wanted, or not used.

 

[Oxford]

Sunfish,

Do you use that secondary air?