028AV Super
ArboristSite Member
Oooops sorry, I mean Andy. Too much multi tasking...
What's the easiest way to trobleshoot for bad crank seal
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Oooops sorry, I mean Andy. Too much multi tasking...
028AV Super
ArboristSite Member
I'll check the torque on it. And I didn't use any thread lockers...
028AV Super
ArboristSite Member
Andy,
- Would it be easier to split the case after flywheel removal than knock out the crank oil seal from the inside? Or not worth it because of gasket set requirement and possibility of damage to other parts.
- I guess tearing it down and trip to local Stihl shop to pull the flywheel and have the crank oil seals removed. I'll try it and see what reaction I get from the mechanic. Couple of weeks ago I went to the newly opened sub-branch Stihl/Kobota/Honda/Cub Cadet shop to buy a 16" bar and couple of chains (didn't want to drive 45min to Madsen's).
- I didn't feel warm and fuzzy from the conversation when I started asking about the problems I had with the saw to include all the maintenance I performed on the saw (i.e. piston change, carb kit, filters, hoses, muffler mod, lube, etc.). The shop mechanic was very young (not saying his a bad mechanic) and two high schoolers manning the desk with no saw knowledge and they were pushing yearly maintenance check pretty hard even after I told them all the stuff I done and repeatedly stated minimum hourly charge for any work however small it was. Maybe they were having a bad day...
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
I sure wouldn't split the case to push out the seals... you need a whole lot more specialized tools and time to do that...
One of the "secrets" to getting a seal out is to free it up before pulling on it - just use a small flat tip punch to tap it in SLIGHTLY on 4 corners, then pull.
Drive it up to me.. I'll do them for you.. for beer (O.K., Space will think that's unethical, but...)..
One of the "secrets" to getting a seal out is to free it up before pulling on it - just use a small flat tip punch to tap it in SLIGHTLY on 4 corners, then pull.
Drive it up to me.. I'll do them for you.. for beer (O.K., Space will think that's unethical, but...)..
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Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
I'd sell mine for that
There has to be something like this for working on bike's outboard engines etc... Husky, Echo and Dolmar must have something similar...
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Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
"I" paid a lot more
A few years ago my good friend was looking for things for my wife to buy me for a birthday present. I was muttering about a "real seal puller" - she went to a stihl dealer and bought one - marked up beyond belief... oh well... better than some useless gift I couldn't drink.
A few years ago my good friend was looking for things for my wife to buy me for a birthday present. I was muttering about a "real seal puller" - she went to a stihl dealer and bought one - marked up beyond belief... oh well... better than some useless gift I couldn't drink.
manual
Addicted to ArboristSite
"I" paid a lot more
A few years ago my good friend was looking for things for my wife to buy me for a birthday present. I was muttering about a "real seal puller" - she went to a stihl dealer and bought one - marked up beyond belief... oh well... better than some useless gift I couldn't drink.
Hmmmm,
Would it be unethical to use a gift to make money with ?
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
028AV Super
ArboristSite Member
Gee, I guess you really have to committed to buy those special tools made out of titanium, platinum, and little bit of cobalt! For the cost of those two tools I can buy a new hot Stihl! Or I can open a chainsaw maintenance shop out of my garage...
I'll try it out the secret tip and let you know. I'll PM you if I need to make a trip to Woodenville with some refreashments made from barley, hops, yeast. Thanks Andy,
Fish
Tree Freak
I wonder if crank seals are your problem. I would suggest maybe stepping
back and starting over with what you have done so far.
I am wondering about the times when it is hard to start, and jerking the
rope out of your hand, spitback, etc.
When you rebuilt the saw, you used an aftermarket piston/cyl?
Just go back over with what you have done before, with some detail,
and these guys may come up with some other ideas.
When you went through the carb, what did you find? Did you use the
full rebuild kit?
My point is, maybe you have jumped to the seal idea as your problem,
and jumped over the real trouble, just a thought.
back and starting over with what you have done so far.
I am wondering about the times when it is hard to start, and jerking the
rope out of your hand, spitback, etc.
When you rebuilt the saw, you used an aftermarket piston/cyl?
Just go back over with what you have done before, with some detail,
and these guys may come up with some other ideas.
When you went through the carb, what did you find? Did you use the
full rebuild kit?
My point is, maybe you have jumped to the seal idea as your problem,
and jumped over the real trouble, just a thought.
028AV Super
ArboristSite Member
Very good point!
Being that this was my first saw coupled with lack of experience, I've been relaying on the words from this forum. So, you are right I didn't use a systematic troubleshooting, or fault isolation procedures. I have been in aviation/jet engine maintenance for over 26 years now and end up reverting to backyard mechanic rule of thumb "Change one part a time till fixed". I did use some common sense and educated approach using tips, and recommendations from this forum. I guess I didn't want to invest for tech manuals, special tools, or pay Stihl technician prevailing wages. Like most DIY guys, I didn't want to spend $250 for Sthil cylinder/piston set-up, didn't want to get fat bill from Stihl shop, and did't want to spend $500 for a new saw.
As for the carb kit, I did do a full kit and old diaphragm was in bad shape (very weak, whole much of crud). The piston was changed using the Golf piston/ring/pin kit. I thought those crank seals could be the culprit and 25+ years old saw can use a new set either way.
The hard to start, jerking ropes, and spit backs issues were intermittent problems from the past 4 years. Basically, it comes and goes. The last straw was the power issues (engine bogging down cutting 15" Doug Fir) that prompted me to go in to saw. Yea, I guess I can get it pressure/vacuum test for the crank case and compression test as well. I thought the odds of oil seal being bad/worn were pretty high, then if problem persisted, I was going to have all these air test done. What do you think?:bang:
Fish
Tree Freak
Since you are in a technical/mechanical field, then you should have
easy access to a mighty vac, or some other pressure/vac gauges, then a leakdown test is quite easy. A piece of rubber between the muffler and
block, a $.25 cork in the intake boot, and air/vac applied to the impulse hose/nipple, with the spark plug in, see if it holds pressure or a vacuum.
easy access to a mighty vac, or some other pressure/vac gauges, then a leakdown test is quite easy. A piece of rubber between the muffler and
block, a $.25 cork in the intake boot, and air/vac applied to the impulse hose/nipple, with the spark plug in, see if it holds pressure or a vacuum.
028AV Super
ArboristSite Member
Hey Fishman,
Just got done stripping it down. Upon closer look on flywheel side, I notice that the flywheel has quite a bit a radial play (1/16-1/8"). I mentioned on earlier thread noticing rubbing on the flywheel with mag pick-up. Well, I can duplicated by hand. Is the play comming from failed crank oil seal or crank bearing on the clutch side gone bad? I'm taking it to the saw shop today to have the components removed that required special tools. I found a small Mom and Pop Shindawa dealer in town. I'm hoping they'll work with me and don't hurt my wallet too much. Thanks for your input Fish!:monkey:
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
1/16" to 1/8"?? Wow.. a few thou would be bad.. that's a really bad bearing. You might want to consider finding a good used crankcase ($50..??) rather than fixing it at a shop. You'll need to split the case, both bearings (one will damage the other), seals, some tools and a bunch of time, and... the crank may have excessive run-out from thrashing around with a bad bearing.
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028AV Super
ArboristSite Member
Hi Andy,
Gee, you bring all the good new! Yea bad crank bearings for sure! Just the magnetics is pulling over the flywheel! Do you think taking it down to Madsen's would hurt the pocket too bad? I've heard that they have a flat rate on it (I'll call them this morning). Andy, What are the odds that crankcase is reusable? Hoping the bearings didn't spun in the case. What have you seen in the past? Did find many loaded (crank/rod/bearings/seals) crank case on ebay for pretty good price $50-75 (I think). I guess this would be easiest approch and just swap everything over.
028AV Super
ArboristSite Member
Hey Andy,
Did you ever deal with ebay seller "cheapstihlparts" out of Everett? He has few 028 crank cases for sale. One question, are all the 028 (WB, AV Super, AV) crank cases all same? The reason I ask is that I know there were 3 different piston sizes (42, 44, and 46mm). Thanks,
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
All the time. I go up there regualrly...
The crankcases differ, and it depend on exactly which "WB" you are refering to. They basicly fall into two types - those with a chain brake and those without. The piston size is less important as the cylinder rmount is the same. I'm pretty the the AV and Super are the same crankcase, and SOME WB will work.
If you buy a used crankcase, I'd replace the seals anyhow, but that's just me.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
You might be shocked when you see Madsens quote... Quite a bit of time and materials.. but.. try them.
The case side pairs are generally reuseable. Unless you have the tools and parts on hand, it's always easier to just get another crankcase on these old saws.
