working alone

[Jeffsaw]

Hi All,

Just wondering if any of you work alone if doing a tree service business as a second job on your days off.

 

[ducaticorse]

Hi All,

Just wondering if any of you work alone if doing a tree service business as a second job on your days off.

You'll die someday as a result.

 

[tree md]

I never work alone when I am climbing. I have done a few cleanup jobs alone and have worked using the client on the ropes (usually when working for a friend) but I never do a serious, involved job without my help.

Not to step on any toes but there is usually a reason someone finds themselves working alone...

 

[jefflovstrom]

Once you leave the ground, you are not alone! Period. Are you insured?
Jeff

 

[NeoTree]

i never work alone when i am climbing. I have done a few cleanup jobs alone and have worked using the client on the ropes (usually when working for a friend) but i never do a serious, involved job without my help.

Not to step on any toes but there is usually a reason someone finds themselves working alone...

+1

 

[newsawtooth]

This will rile the hive but... I work alone. I don't have any employees because there just isn't enough work to hire them. I refuse to bring in someone who I can't cover as far as workers comp and benefits. In my area there a many companies that have crews some legit some not. By in large the groundsmen can't climb safely or extricate someone from a tree so they have to wait for the fire department anyway. If there was a standard where by all crews had adequate climbers on the ground then it might make sense. The logic that just having someone there makes it less dangerous doesn't make sense. If that someone knows what to do then it makes sense. But as of now there is no real training for groundsmen involved in emergency situations outside of a few exceptional company's programs. Perhaps the Good Messieurs Lovstrom and PDQDL have such programs?

Alright, fire away....

 

[lego1970]

I do a lot of jobs by myself, but I don't do it full time and I normally only tackle the jobs that I feel pretty confident about. On top of that, I'm doing less and less tree work every year. There have been a couple times that I've chewed off more then I can eat. Sometimes the homeowner will help me rope some stuff out, but I only do that if the homeowner is the construction/farmer type person. There have been a few times where I'll rope stuff out on my own by attaching a doubled up rope to a strap/sling then locking it off. Then after I finish the cut, I can steer or swing the piece to where I need it to land. Then I retrieve the doubled up rope.

The way I look at it, you have to be carefull wether your by yourself or working with a crew. I bet over 50% of the crews I've worked with, I'm the only climber on the jobsite and the one time I got messed up, there were two other climbers that were better skilled then I am. I do a lot of things by myself where I could get killed or severely injured if I mess up, so I think I'm pretty good at staying within my limits and trying to be prepared for whatever happens.

 

[ropensaddle]

I work alone from time to time but it sucks. I don't climb alone but have done some bucket work alone and the people preaching otherwise would too if they had to.

 

[tree md]

My guys are on my ass so much about work that I couldn't get rid of them if I tried. It's been a slow week. I went to a marketing strategy seminar today that I was invited to along with many other local business proprietors. Both of my guys have been on the phone with me tonight chewing my ass about printing off fliers for them to throw. One of them wanted me to email him the flier so he can print them off himself and throw them in the morning (I've got 2 jobs to bid in the morning).

I'm pretty lucky with the help I've got. I try to treat them well.

 

[ropensaddle]

My guys are on my ass so much about work that I couldn't get rid of them if I tried. It's been a slow week. I went to a marketing strategy seminar today that I was invited to along with many other local business proprietors. Both of my guys have been on the phone with me tonight chewing my ass about printing off fliers for them to throw. One of them wanted me to email him the flier so he can print them off himself and throw them in the morning (I've got 2 jobs to bid in the morning).

I'm pretty lucky with the help I've got. I try to treat them well.

Yes it sounds like you are I end up with the ones that just want a few bucks lol. Of course thats mostly okay when you dont have a full schedule.

 

[Jeffsaw]

Thanks very much for the information guys. I do have an experienced fellow who helps me with the occasional job so maybe I should factor him in to my estimates and see if two people are more cost efficient than one. And you're right, it'll be safer.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

I work alone.....yeeaahh, with nobody else.

You know when I work alone, I prefer to be by myself.

Not alway true, I'll take jr, or the ol man. Sometimes my landlord comes along. Homeowners like to be there mostly.

So rarely am I truly alone, but sometimes. I don't mind it at all. I've worked the row alone a few times when groundpuppies don't show or quit. I'm only allowed to trim service drops though, but it has got me through some tough times.

I just threw my name in yellowbook, so it looks like I'll need extra help one of these days. Then I'll call the temp service again to send me some more magpies to cycle through and pick from.

I had a good partner once....he even wanted to make it official, but too much money in his pocket would slow him down, or he had something else to do.

I'll grow up and bite the bullet when I'm good and ready. Good help is hard to find though.

I've worked alone most of my life, farming and trucking. I do things accordingly, and that will keep you out of trouble 99% of the time.

I agree with the idea it is best to have someone with you, even when I do though, ultimately, I'm still alone.

And yet, imho, I'm never alone.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

You'll die someday as a result.

In case you haven't been notified....you are going to die someday regardless.

How many have been killed or injured as a result of working with someone else?

There's a question not many will ask, and less want the answer to.

Working alone is not the ultimate sin, and having someone there is not the ultimate solution.

When it comes down to it, mostly, it is just you, the tree, and your decisions. Maybe some powerlines thrown in for good measure, and what not. Otherwise, mostly you have spectators, maybe a good hand if and when you need one. Maybe.

 

[ropensaddle]

In case you haven't been notified....you are going to die someday regardless.

How many have been killed or injured as a result of working with someone else?

There's a question not many will ask, and less want the answer to.

Working alone is not the ultimate sin, and having someone there is not the ultimate solution.

When it comes down to it, mostly, it is just you, the tree, and your decisions. Maybe some powerlines thrown in for good measure, and what not. Otherwise, mostly you have spectators, maybe a good hand if and when you need one. Maybe.

Thanks termie I was going to say it but my carple tunnel is acting up lol

 

[Tree Machine]

I won't condone it, but working alone is my normal day-to-day way. This is my 17th year in business

Over time I have hired help, from degenerates, to world class climbers, to board certified master arborists. One thing rings consistent across the board- Though I very much enjoy the company of others, I take a substantial pay cut almost every time.


Now, my system is truly set up to work solo, and I find a lot of peace and enjoyment, but this is me. As MD says 'there may be a reason for this' and I have mine. Basically, a deep fear of another man getting hurt on my jobsite. Granted, the ANSI safety manual says on page one that each individual is responsible for their own safety, but in reality, if someone gets hurt on my jobsite, it is my fault.

So, just those two things alone send my stress level up. Then there's all the other employee issues, which of course we could go on and on. But at the root of it all, when I'm in the tree, I usually just need men to stay out of the zone. If I yell 'CLEAR' between cuts and I watch casual, almost slow-motion action, and I'm waiting, every second is painful. When I have to say something, given the distance from crown to ground, you almost are forced to yell to be heard clearly. Yelling instructions, especially the obvious, stresses me and the tone comes through, and not in a warm and fuzzy way.

Also, I generally have to turn off my ear-protective music muffs to stay connected and in communication with the guy. Music during my work is one of the great benefits I personally enjoy, without which the work becomes more like, ...... work.

Freedom is another big one. I go out in the morning, sometimes at sunrise, sometimes at 10:00. Usually when I get done reading threads on arboristsite. I work until I'm done working, whenever that is. Even though I'm a full-time arborist, lifestyle plays into it a lot.

My firewood guys make this reasonably possible on larger jobs, basically I don't have to handle heavy wood. Big limbs get cut up into 16"s until its small diameter brush, and they move the wood out and I deal with the remaining brush. I have two log arches, so I can move thousand pound limbs by myself with it, a 6" Bandit & 4WD truck that I can generally get right into the core of the mess. I hire help when there's a distance to be covered, or I'm near electrical. If I needed to be aerially rescued, even a most experienced ground guy can still only dial a phone. I would have to have a climber experienced in aerial rescue to rescue me aerially, and there is always someone around to dial 911. I work in a densely populated area, someone is always watching the treeguy work.

Since it is my business, my safety and my life, I see this as my personal decision. There are no laws requiring me to have employees to do tree care:greenchainsaw:, so I'll make those choices job-to-job.

I'm a production-oriented aerial technician, not a personnel manager, not a caterer, a counselor, a loan officer, nor an accommodator to all the wants and needs of another person. I hire for that person to accommodate MY needs.

I am likely a much better employee than a boss. Boss is not my strong point. I could manage and direct others well, I feel, but only if it were not for my own company.

 

[TimberJack_7]

In case you haven't been notified....you are going to die someday regardless.

How many have been killed or injured as a result of working with someone else?

There's a question not many will ask, and less want the answer to.

Working alone is not the ultimate sin, and having someone there is not the ultimate solution.

When it comes down to it, mostly, it is just you, the tree, and your decisions. Maybe some powerlines thrown in for good measure, and what not. Otherwise, mostly you have spectators, maybe a good hand if and when you need one. Maybe.

lol and true.

I would be surprised to find out if there is a single tree guy out there that hasn't worked by himself at least once. Maybe not so much for a company but for something like a sidejob.

Either do it or don't but if things go south you can be in some big trouble.

 

[bitzer]

In case you haven't been notified....you are going to die someday regardless.

How many have been killed or injured as a result of working with someone else?

There's a question not many will ask, and less want the answer to.

Working alone is not the ultimate sin, and having someone there is not the ultimate solution.

When it comes down to it, mostly, it is just you, the tree, and your decisions. Maybe some powerlines thrown in for good measure, and what not. Otherwise, mostly you have spectators, maybe a good hand if and when you need one. Maybe.

Absolutly. Especially the spectators part. If I'm on the saw, its all up to me. If/when there is anyone else there, unless they are pulling a rope, they are not getting out of the way fast enough or far enough. And then its whoa! or Jesus! when a branch whips around at them or something breaks off and flies their way. Yeah, I said get clear and 3 steps back is not clear. At that point it can be liabilty. I've been working alone 90% of the time for 8 years now. That was not climbing work though. I am finding out its a different ball game when you're in the tree. Some jobs, other hands are a necessity. If I can do it alone though I will. In the end its up to me what happens.

 

[beowulf343]

I would be surprised to find out if there is a single tree guy out there that hasn't worked by himself at least once. Maybe not so much for a company but for something like a sidejob.

15 years, have never worked without a groundie, even on sidejobs. Honestly have never even thought about going alone. But it's probably because i don't trim, without a groundie i've got brush 15 feet up the stem and have gone up and down two or three times to fill the saw.

 

[pdqdl]

Perhaps the Good Messieurs Lovstrom and PDQDL have such programs?

Alright, fire away....

Not me. I think your points are well made and true, but you overlooked a couple of points.

1. When you work by yourself, there will not even be anyone to call the fire department. That has to count for something.

2. If you are working without a ground man, then you are working harder in the tree to overcome the shortage, and there are some things you simply cannot do from up in the tree. A good example would be pulling lowered logs away from obstructions on the ground. Untying a lowering line would be another example.

If you are compensating for these extra difficulties by declining some jobs, then you are missing out on income opportunities.

3. It is actually pretty easy to set the climber in a tree on a climb line that can be lowered from the ground. Should the climber become disabled, the groundies would likely be able to lower him if he was able to free himself from the second tie in point like his safety lanyard.

4. If you are working extra hard by yourself, then you are likely to be more fatigued and make a mistake up in the tree.

 

[tree md]

The only times I remember ever working alone was a couple of times when I was young and hungry. I have put a couple of chop and drop pines on the ground. I remember once or twice to tie a large job down when I felt they were shakey or knew they had someone coming to give another estimate.

Like PDQDL said, there would not even be anyone around to call for help should you become unconscious in the tree. I have even resorted to bringing my girlfriend to help me a few times but I always like to have someone there if nothing more than to send me up a drink of water.