Chain selection for improved performance: 3/8 Low Profile options

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ijpom

Dude, where's my saw?
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I'm looking at OREGON 91VXL062G as an upgrade for the basic 3/8 LP chains that I have on many of my saws. Anyone have experience with this chain, and versus lower end 3/8 LP or basic 325 chain?

Back story:
Limbing and bucking a dead but solid tree about 17" at it's base (14" where I fell it). Started with my Craftsman 2400 equivalent with 18' bar and low kickback chain.
Chain is decently sharp, has maybe 25 thou from cutter to raker height, but takes a long time in cutting the main trunk.

Moved to what I call "Big Blue" in my collection (Blue Max 45cc, 20", 325 chain, Chinese knock off of the Zenoah) with a decently sharp chain. WAY FASTER! Not just more power, but lots more wood cutting ability.

Since I have another 42cc saw on the way (P&C rebuild), I expect to be able to pull a faster cutting chain than it was supplied with.

Will I be making something close to the 325 performance, or will I be disappointed by the difference in performance between the two 3/8 LP chains?



IMG_20210703_093941522.jpgIMG_20210710_131108541.jpg
 
Not a bad chain if the wood is clean. Teeth are on the softer side. Cuts slower then the Stihl rm. The Carlton N1C cuts the same as the Oregon but holds up better and cost less.
As for speed unless you can run them on the same saw its hard to compare. I have a Dolmar 421, 42cc 3/8lp and a Echo CS501p ,50cc and .325. running 16" bars on both saws with the same brand and type of chain. On smaller wood under 6" the 421 cuts faster. 6-12" it's about a wash over 12 the 501 extra power shows. If the saws were the same power I think the 3/8 LP would cut just slightly faster.
 
I'm looking at OREGON 91VXL062G as an upgrade for the basic 3/8 LP chains that I have on many of my saws. Anyone have experience with this chain, and versus lower end 3/8 LP or basic 325 chain?
The VXL mostly provides a longer tooth length, which lasts longer (more sharpenings). Full chisel teeth will cut faster in clean wood; semi-chisel teeth will cut longer in dead and dirty wood.

Before you try different chains, maybe try different sharpening angles. Assuming that you are good at getting a sharp edge, maybe try filing at different angles? The top plate angle can vary from 25° (hardwood), to 35° (softwood).
Chain Filing Angles.png
The height of your file will also affect the top plate bevel angle, or 'hook', which can make a chain cut more or less aggressively.
Screen shot 2015-12-18 at 7.32.48 PM.png

Finally, the height of the depth gauges ('rakers') will affect how a chain cuts.

Adjusting these for your saw and your wood might provide the performance you are looking for.

Philbert
 
The VXL mostly provides a longer tooth length, which lasts longer (more sharpenings). Full chisel teeth will cut faster in clean wood; semi-chisel teeth will cut longer in dead and dirty wood.

Before you try different chains, maybe try different sharpening angles. Assuming that you are good at getting a sharp edge, maybe try filing at different angles? The top plate angle can vary from 25° (hardwood), to 35° (softwood).
View attachment 918376
The height of your file will also affect the top plate bevel angle, or 'hook', which can make a chain cut more or less aggressively.
View attachment 918377

Finally, the height of the depth gauges ('rakers') will affect how a chain cuts.

Adjusting these for your saw and your wood might provide the performance you are looking for.

Philbert
Philbert, have you tried 25 degrees top plate angle before? Curious to know how it compares to the 30 I've been using.
 
Philbert, have you tried 25 degrees top plate angle before? Curious to know how it compares to the 30 I've been using.
The 25° will cut slower in softwood, but last longer in harder (or frozen) wood. There is no reason that you cannot have different chains, filed at different angles, for different wood or cutting situations: no one plays golf with just one club! A great experiment is to sharpen 2 similar / identical chains to different angles, and try them side-by-side in the same wood. That way you can tell if it makes a noticable difference in your cutting.

Philbert
 
Oregon 91 VXL is what I would call basic 3/8lp. I have experience using it. I think the obsolete 91vx and current 91px with the smaller cutters and depth gauges that don't stick out as far forward is a performance improvement for low powered saws. The Stihl chisel 63PS would be a performance improvement but cut a wider kerf.
 
The VXL mostly provides a longer tooth length, which lasts longer (more sharpenings). Full chisel teeth will cut faster in clean wood; semi-chisel teeth will cut longer in dead and dirty wood.

Before you try different chains, maybe try different sharpening angles. Assuming that you are good at getting a sharp edge, maybe try filing at different angles? The top plate angle can vary from 25° (hardwood), to 35° (softwood).
View attachment 918376
The height of your file will also affect the top plate bevel angle, or 'hook', which can make a chain cut more or less aggressively.
View attachment 918377

Finally, the height of the depth gauges ('rakers') will affect how a chain cuts.

Adjusting these for your saw and your wood might provide the performance you are looking for.

Philbert
Hi @Philbert ,

Thanks for your thorough answer.
I've been filing at 30deg, and maintaining the factory cutting angle each time up to this point. My usual check on the effectiveness of the sharpening is to see that I have a straight line on the top of the cutter edge and a clean cutting surface created by the file underneath it. I have been wondering about the 0 to 10 deg file guide angle, but not experimented with that yet.

Not sure what species are native to Illinois, what is growing in my rando backyard forest or even how to identify them (living and dead). Speed/sharpness has not been a problem for small trees of any variety, but as I get bigger, the trees will all be dead and so far, still solid inside. What I'm trying to say is that I couldn't tell what is a softwood or hardwood on my property.

For reasons of longevity of chain sharpness, I think I should avoid the full chisel for now.



Oregon 91 VXL is what I would call basic 3/8lp. I have experience using it. I think the obsolete 91vx and current 91px with the smaller cutters and depth gauges that don't stick out as far forward is a performance improvement for low powered saws. The Stihl chisel 63PS would be a performance improvement but cut a wider kerf.
@Franny K

The basic chain I refer to has huge 'bumpers' between the cutters, in addition to the rakers. Truely a homeowner/novice chain with all the compromises (and safety?) that brings. The Oregon web site warns that the VXL chain will allow more kickback without the bumpers, and that its recommended for "Arborists and professionals".

They think VXL is a step above their basic, and I have a loop on the way to try out. As other commenters have mentioned Carlton N1C for sharpness and value, I'm trying a loop of that too.
 
Not sure what species are native to Illinois, what is growing in my rando backyard forest or even how to identify them (living and dead). Speed/sharpness has not been a problem for small trees of any variety, but as I get bigger, the trees will all be dead and so far, still solid inside. What I'm trying to say is that I couldn't tell what is a softwood or hardwood on my property.
That is why I encourage folks to experiment, once they have basic sharpening down. Your saws, your wood, you types of cutting, etc., are different than mine.

If you ONLY cut softwoods (e.g. on a Christmas tree plantation) or ONLY cut hardwoods (e.g. a forest full of cherry trees) it would be easier. But most people cut a mix of woods, and that 30° angle is a good, 'all-around' angle for that. So, if you feel comfortable with it, try changing a few angles, along with trying different chains, and see what works for you. If you don't notice a significant difference, go back to what you did before. But it you find something that gets your attention, see if you can replicate it.

Again, it does not hurt to have different chains for different cutting situations, just like you probably have different sockets (deep, metric, 12-point, etc.) to use with your ratchets.

Philbert
 
Conclusion on this topic has the rebuilt Craftsman 42cc 18inch strato charged saw being given a Carlton N1C. Now it cuts way better.

Still working on the tune a little, but it cut though the rest of my solid 12" dead tree trunk rapidly and well matched to the saws power.
Just the biggest (front) sections were cut recently with this combination.IMG_20210723_151316759_HDR.jpg
 
Stihl PS chain, hands down the only low profile chain I'll run. Full comp, Full chisel, non safety chain. It's the same as Stihl's PS3, but without the safety bumpers. Best cutting chain there is. Only one man's opinion of course.
Stihl PS (picco super)
62b585d95f1f4c968d8640d7cd649ff8.jpg
Stihl PS3
images.jpeg.jpg
 
Stihl 63PM

Or 63PS. I use 33RMF my bigger saw and love it.

Stihl PS chain, hands down the only low profile chain I'll run. Full comp, Full chisel, non safety chain. It's the same as Stihl's PS3, but without the safety bumpers. Best cutting chain there is. Only one man's opinion of course.
Stihl PS (picco super)
View attachment 958319
Stihl PS3
View attachment 958320
Seems like many agree that Stihl makes a good chain. Looking up 63PM and PS specs I get semi-chisel and full chisel respectively.

My problem: I run Craftsman/Poulan/Husqvarna spec bar lengths and DL counts. That means 62DL for 18" 3/8lp (picco) chain.
Stihl seems to have 50/55/61 DLs for 14/16/18in bars, and are all a little shorter.

Screenshot_20220122-172513.png

Anyone got experience with the fit on a stock bar, or does the use of Stihl chain mean a bar swap too?
My bars are A041 mount if I remember right.
 
I've bought Stihl packaged PS/PS3 in lengths for non-Stihl bars too. 45 and 52 link to be exact, which fit Echo 12" and 14" bars. This was at a dealer that sold both Stihl and Echo.
 
I was running the oregon chain you can buy at big box stores on my echo cs-400s then I found full chisle chain on ebay forester and carlton. Night and day difference. But if I know im cutting dead ash I use the semi chisle. I'm sure il get some heat for this but I bought alot of full chisle Chinese chain for under 5$ a loop s52. Half my cutting I do is clearing land for food plots. Tons of cutting small trees and brush level with the ground and alot of dirt. At under 5$ there throwaways. If I'm cutting clean wood I'm using better chain that I sharpen.
 
Im running chinese 8ten full chisel 3/8lp chain on one of my saws now, it had big bumper links I ground off it tho, it was wrongly advertised on amazon not showing the bumper links. its quite a bit faster than oregon 3/8lp, holds an edge fine and is cheaper. Oregon doesnt make a good 3/8lp chain IMO but there .325 lpx is as good as .325 chain gets.
 
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