A well sharpened chain?

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Looks good, and looks like you're taking the tooth back very slowly. This is ground, not filed, right?
Yes, it looks good. I take them back as they get dull, sometimes its slowly and other times its very fast. If you want a fast chain you need to file/grind back every cutter past any damage, but sometimes circumstance dictates that you just need to get it back far enough to finish the job, then you can clean it up properly later or toss it when that job is done.

Yes ground, but do you know what you're looking at?
 
Yes, it looks good. I take them back as they get dull, sometimes its slowly and other times its very fast. If you want a fast chain you need to file/grind back every cutter past any damage, but sometimes circumstance dictates that you just need to get it back far enough to finish the job, then you can clean it up properly later or toss it when that job is done.

Yes ground, but do you know what you're looking at?


I wouldn't bet my life on it, but I'm guessing it's either a chipper chain or form of a square grind.
 
View attachment 961565View attachment 961564

I got this saw/bar/chain at the pawn shop for dirt cheap some months back.

Started sharpening one day in December.

Took 50 licks to get that tooth (note the sharpie on the link rivets in both photos) in the shape it is without taking too much material off by grinding down the top plate. It was slow and laborious, and if the shop knew how to grind a chain the way I want it filed, I'd gladly not do anymore licks on it. It'd be nice if this had a little more hook at this stage, but it'll be good enough for a tank or two before another sharpening. Then I'll go in with a 13/64" to improve it. Haven't touched the depth gauges yet.

Probably could have sacrificed 1/4-1/3 the tooth either with a larger file or grinding away at the top plate, but instead I used a 7/32" and filed at 30°. I started in opening the gullet and getting back and down into the cutter, roughly 30 strokes to establish the gullet and open up the tooth. Then I raised the guide .010" or .020" and filed another 20 strokes to fix the top angle and further open up the cutting edge above the gullet.

I think they were filing at 35, and poorly. The chain is near new, and some of the cutters are already almost sloped back. No gullet on the two dull teeth. Note the small but present gullet on the sharpened one. Some hook, but not dramatic. Lots of room to work with and will be much easier to change the profile as needed. I'd prefer a slightly longer length from edge to edge of the cutting edge (not the leading edge), but I didn't feel like giving it another lick.



When cutting brush, the less htook you have, the longer the edge holds up, assuming it's sharpened properly. Inevitably you will hit something when you're doing that work, despite how careful you are.
Yeah you lost the working corner pretty much on that one . A little at a time and you will be back into spec .
 
I wouldn't bet my life on it, but I'm guessing it's either a chipper chain or form of a square grind.
If you don't know, then maybe your comment on it was out of place ;).
It's square...
Screen Shot 2022-02-01 at 4.37.35 PM.png
The rakers on this particular chain where a little low(not done by me), so I converted it to square as that eats up a good bit of the working corner, but not as much of the outside edge of the top plate because the top plate angle is a bit less than it would be if it was round filed.
Next touch up and the rakers will be perfect for cutting frozen wood.
 
If you don't know, then maybe your comment on it was out of place ;).
It's square...
View attachment 961647
The rakers on this particular chain where a little low(not done by me), so I converted it to square as that eats up a good bit of the working corner, but not as much of the outside edge of the top plate because the top plate angle is a bit less than it would be if it was round filed.
Next touch up and the rakers will be perfect for cutting frozen wood.

Look in good Brett , I square file also as you know , I find it a big improvement in cutting gnarly hardwoods . Takes a little more set up time than round filing , but once you get the proper filing technique things speed up noticeably !
 
A husky roller guide is a great tool to help in that circumstance. Every now and then I run into a cutter that is very hard across the cutting edge of the top plate and the file wants to go under like that, I typically will lower the side if the file closest to me and file up at that angle until the file is only under the cutter about 20%, then I level the file back out. Another thing you can do is take your raker file and just file the leading edge back a little to remove the hook, then try again.
The raker file or a small single bastard cut square file to rework the leading edge , as Brett mentioned gets you back in the ball game !
 
If you don't know, then maybe your comment on it was out of place ;).
It's square...
View attachment 961647
The rakers on this particular chain where a little low(not done by me), so I converted it to square as that eats up a good bit of the working corner, but not as much of the outside edge of the top plate because the top plate angle is a bit less than it would be if it was round filed.
Next touch up and the rakers will be perfect for cutting frozen wood.

That chain is a little aggressive , same one with the rakers a tad low Brett ? It seemed to begin to smooth out in the last few cookies or you let up a little on the top handle lol. Love the old 2 Series !
 
If you don't know, then maybe your comment on it was out of place ;).
It's square...
View attachment 961647
The rakers on this particular chain where a little low(not done by me), so I converted it to square as that eats up a good bit of the working corner, but not as much of the outside edge of the top plate because the top plate angle is a bit less than it would be if it was round filed.
Next touch up and the rakers will be perfect for cutting frozen wood.



Interesting!

I've never dealt with square chain. Outside of the 42" bar chains, I stick with semi-chisel. It's rare anything I cut is clean.
And thankfully little to no frozen wood here, at least not the under 2000' elevations.

Yeah you lost the working corner pretty much on that one . A little at a time and you will be back into spec .

Exactly. The teeth, when I finish them all some day, will be sufficient for cutting, to be made more than sufficient upon future sharpening. WIth what the still-dull teeth are like, it's a significant improvement.
 
Looks good, and looks like you're taking the tooth back very slowly. This is ground, not filed, right?

Just an example of dozens of right and wrong ways to sharpen!





The rakers are low, yes. I prefer a more aggressive chain to begin with.

I don't agree with your last statement. Brushing isn't as taxing to begin with on the saw. The saw the first chain photo is on is mostly for falling smaller stuff, limbing, and brushing.

If I was bucking 20" rounds with it all day, every day, MAYBE you would be right.

My crew boss runs his chains with little to no hook (again, for brushing) and gets lots of life out of his saws with little maintenance.
Definately less hook for light brushing & limbing applications .
 
Look in good Brett , I square file also as you know , I find it a big improvement in cutting gnarly hardwoods . Takes a little more set up time than round filing , but once you get the proper filing technique things speed up noticeably !

I have a couple square grinders, for converting them, after that I will hand file them until I get damage.

That chain is a little aggressive , same one with the rakers a tad low Brett ? It seemed to begin to smooth out in the last few cookies or you let up a little on the top handle lol. Love the old 1 Series !

Yes, rakers a bit low, I said that above, even so it bores just fine.
If you look close you can see the knots in it and it was frozen, and yes I let up on the last cut. In green non-frozen wood this chain would be very smooth.
Those cookies will be in the wood stove over the next few days :sweet:.
 
I have a couple square grinders, for converting them, after that I will hand file them until I get damage.



Yes, rakers a bit low, I said that above, even so it bores just fine.
If you look close you can see the knots in it and it was frozen, and yes I let up on the last cut. In green non-frozen wood this chain would be very smooth.
Those cookies will be in the wood stove over the next few days :sweet:.
Absolutely Brett , frozen wood will chunk out easily & yes I see the knots , changes the cutting dynamics immensely . What angle profile do you prefer with your square filing & grinding ?
 
Nice video.
To add to my last post, this also accounts for why you can cut straight and, each tooth does not have to be the same length.
The depth (raker) determines the rate of the cut , having each tooth the same size is impracticable , although in a perfect world optimial , it does not effect a straight cutting saw chain !
 
Always get a laugh at people saying all the cutters have to be the same length, don’t think they ever thought of what a raker gauge actually does .
Most have no idea, and won't listen when you tell them, but they'll be happy to tell you how to do it the "right way lol.
I true most of them(edit; the cutters) up when I put them on the grinders, if they are off the saw I'm only gonna file one raker with a progressive gauge, then it's going on the raker grinder :).
 
I guess everyone has there version,,
My first 3 cu in saw was a Jonsered purchased in 1982, with a Carlton chain.
I loved that saw, and always kept a Carlton chain on it,, the guy that sold me the saw always sharpened the chains,,

Then, about 15 years later, I decided I needed a second saw, I bought a Stihl 029 Super,,
I do not know if it took forever for that saw to break in,, or what, but, that saw NEVER cut worth a hoot,,
THEN, a couple weeks ago, I bought the Pferd 3 file holder sharpener.
I had just cleaned up the 029, from sitting around not being used,, and I filed the chain with the Pferd,,
(I have only ever has Stihl chains for the 029!!)

Well, for the past week, I have been running that saw for 2 or 3 hours per day,, and going through LOTS of gas,,
That saw now cuts equal to, or better than how I remember the Jonsered.
I have only touched up the chain once since the first Pferd sharpening.

I can not go back and compare it to the Jonsered, I gave that saw to my SIL,,
he put the saw in the bucket of the JD 855,, and the saw promptly bounced out,, to its death,,

I have several new Stihl chains,, I may have to put a new chain on,, and see how the 029 cuts.
It may be that the 029 likes the drags to be a little lower,,
I noticed every drag was visibly lowered by the Pfred, even though I only stroked each tooth 5 strokes.

Just 2 hours ago I was cutting a white oak that had blown down last summer
The 029 (16" bar) could not reach through the tree at 30 feet up the tree, and no rot in the tree.
The 029 just dropped right through the oak never needing the spikes, just slight down pressure.
Prior to cutting the oak, I had cut up about 50 feet of fallen locust ~12 to 16inches in diameter.
It is now a pleasure to run.

Prior to the Pferd sharpened chain, I really disliked even running the 029
 
Most have no idea, and won't listen when you tell them, but they'll be happy to tell you how to do it the "right way lol.
I true most of them(edit; the cutters) up when I put them on the grinders, if they are off the saw I'm only gonna file one raker with a progressive gauge, then it's going on the raker grinder :).
You never got back to me Brett on your preferred tooth angle your running on your square ground or filed chains . I'am currently running a 35 degree angle rather than the conventional 30 degree I round file at. I find the tooth stays sharper longer on my Ash & Ironwood up North . I use an old Vintage Granberg 104 Jig from the 60's that excepts the double bevel or triangle files very effectively @ my 25 degree down stroke . I use a lot of Oregon chain lately , use to buy a lot of Stihl RS , but find the new Oregon cuts a little better & longer , probably a metallurgy thing within hardest class ? Anyhow , learnt the square filing from my uncle back in the late 60's . He was pretty well an old school type guy . I still have a few of his old Mac file holders that I still currently use when I free hand lol.
 
You never got back to me Brett on your preferred tooth angle your running on your square ground or filed chains . I'am currently running a 35 degree angle rather than the conventional 30 degree I round file at. I find the tooth stays sharper longer on my Ash & Ironwood up North . I use an old Vintage Granberg 104 Jig from the 60's that excepts the double bevel or triangle files very effectively @ my 25 degree down stroke . I use a lot of Oregon chain lately , use to buy a lot of Stihl RS , but find the new Oregon cuts a little better & longer , probably a metallurgy thing within hardest class ? Anyhow , learnt the square filing from my uncle back in the late 60's . He was pretty well an old school type guy . I still have a few of his old Mac file holders that I still currently use when I free hand lol.
Top plate is at about 25, couple degrees on the side plate which gives close to 45 degrees on the underside if I had to guess. It's not a real fast cut, but its durable and smooth. The smoothness is one thing that makes it safer and helps to keep it sharper longer because you can control the cut better as it's not grabby so you're not as likely to hit the ground.
The Oregon EXL is one of my favorites out of the box and its quite hard. The new husky x-cut chains are also very hard and cut nicely out of the box. Both the x-cut and the EXL are very difficult to mimic the original angles on. It can be done, but it takes a couple steps with various files/techniques. At least it sharpens well using a standard single file/technique.
That's pretty cool you had someone to teach you. I learned sharpening on the internet and personal experience, would have been a lot easier and cheaper to have had someone to teach me :yes:.
 
Top plate is at about 25, couple degrees on the side plate which gives close to 45 degrees on the underside if I had to guess. It's not a real fast cut, but its durable and smooth. The smoothness is one thing that makes it safer and helps to keep it sharper longer because you can control the cut better as it's not grabby so you're not as likely to hit the ground.
The Oregon EXL is one of my favorites out of the box and its quite hard. The new husky x-cut chains are also very hard and cut nicely out of the box. Both the x-cut and the EXL are very difficult to mimic the original angles on. It can be done, but it takes a couple steps with various files/techniques. At least it sharpens well using a standard single file/technique.
That's pretty cool you had someone to teach you. I learned sharpening on the internet and personal experience, would have been a lot easier and cheaper to have had someone to teach me :yes:.
"Smooth" and "Durable" are faster at the end of the day, and will always be my preferece over "The Fast Slice" type of chain.
 
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