2153 bogging when hot

[JONSSTIHL]

Hey guys, I've got a little problem with my 2153.

it bogs when I hit the throttle but only on a hot restart. Basically I can't cut anything with it. it will idle but dies if I hold the throttle open.

last year it started bogging after starting when cold so I changed the diaphragm in the carb and that helped until this week. Primer bulb felt funny like it was sucking air in so I decided to go through the carb and change the other side gaskets. Cleaned out the carb and air filter. it was cutting pretty good this morning while I was tuning it but then the problem was back after I shut it off to chip branches. Carb looked pretty clean, a bit of saw dust in a few spots internaly but overall not really nasty. I did take the H and L screws out and sprayed carb cleaner in there.

a little history, saw is from 2007 with a non cat muffler and I added a second exhaust port a few years ago. limiter caps are gone. ignition coil failed maybe three or four years ago so I replaced with a non limited version. fuel filter is recent but all rubber parts are original.

I've cut about 18 face cords a year for 15 years so it has some use on it but no where near commercial use.

Thinking of replacing it with a 261 or a 2253 but the 2253 will be complicated to get since it is not available in canada.

 

[Old2stroke]

Sounds like a case of fuel starvation. Could be a cracked or crimped fuel line or a pin hole in it. Other possibilities would be fuel pump diaphragm that's too stiff to pump adequate fuel or something wrong with the crankshaft impulse that drives it. Input filter screen in the carb partially blocked? Fact that the primer is sucking only air means there is an air leak in the fuel delivery or a stuck open nozzle check valve.

 

[SteveSr]

...or a stuck open nozzle check valve.

Bingo! Especially if it is a Zama carb. If the valve sticks closed it will idle all day but won't rev up. If it sticks open it will die at idle... Like an air leak, which it is.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

And or a clogged up spark arrestor screen if one is still fitted- non Cat muffler and second exhaust port no doubt negates this theory though.
Most probably as above.

 

[JJT]

Hey guys, I've got a little problem with my 2153.

it bogs when I hit the throttle but only on a hot restart. Basically I can't cut anything with it. it will idle but dies if I hold the throttle open.

last year it started bogging after starting when cold so I changed the diaphragm in the carb and that helped until this week. Primer bulb felt funny like it was sucking air in so I decided to go through the carb and change the other side gaskets. Cleaned out the carb and air filter. it was cutting pretty good this morning while I was tuning it but then the problem was back after I shut it off to chip branches. Carb looked pretty clean, a bit of saw dust in a few spots internaly but overall not really nasty. I did take the H and L screws out and sprayed carb cleaner in there.

a little history, saw is from 2007 with a non cat muffler and I added a second exhaust port a few years ago. limiter caps are gone. ignition coil failed maybe three or four years ago so I replaced with a non limited version. fuel filter is recent but all rubber parts are original.

I've cut about 18 face cords a year for 15 years so it has some use on it but no where near commercial use.

Thinking of replacing it with a 261 or a 2253 but the 2253 will be complicated to get since it is not available in canada.

Let me know if you want to get rid of it. I'm looking for one.

 

[JONSSTIHL]

i'm not ready to give up on it yet. but I am interested in what you guys call the nozzle check valve.

definitely not the screen. I shortened the fuel line last night since the end seems to have taken the shape of the inlet pipe. but haven't had time to try it.

It has the stock carb I believe EL32 with limiter caps removed.

that is exactly the symptom I have, idles fine but bogs as soon as the throttle is hit.

off to check google, there doesn't seem to be any mention of a nozzle check valve in the service manual. one thing i did notice is that the service manual mentions a welch plug that should be removed but mine has some kind of hole drilled in it. I bought it new and I know I didn't drill any holes in it so maybe that is what you guys are talking about.


thanks for all the tips.

 

[JONSSTIHL]

zama has a great site with tech support articles and exploded views I will look into the check valve luckily it is on the metering diaphragm side so I can check it out without removing the carb.

I wonder if this particular model C3-EL32 is a screw in type or pressed in.

 

[SteveSr]

i'm not ready to give up on it yet. but I am interested in what you guys call the nozzle check valve.

This is generally not repairable unless you can:

A: Get a new main nozzle
B: Have the patience to build a tool and extract the old one.

This is usually reserved for high value NLA carbs. There are some threads on here about replacing such. Contrary to other advice you want to pull them from the metering chamber side to avoid enlarging the bore in the carb casting and creating a leak which cannot be sealed.

that is exactly the symptom I have, idles fine but bogs as soon as the throttle is hit.

Hot soak vapor-lock can also cause similar issues especially if you are still using winter gas in warm temperatures. Let the saw idle for 30-60 seconds to cool off before shutting down often helps.

off to check google, there doesn't seem to be any mention of a nozzle check valve in the service manual. one thing i did notice is that the service manual mentions a welch plug that should be removed but mine has some kind of hole drilled in it.

Welch plugs, like sleeping dogs, are best left alone unless PROVEN to be blocked. Re-sealing them is the issue. Even the factory with their specific tooling can't do this reliably and use a secondary sealant which we don't have access to.

The whole that you are seeing if in a brass plug (welch plugs are aluminum) is likely the main jet in the main nozzle.

 

[JONSSTIHL]

found out the welch plug on my model is oblong shaped. are we still using nail polish to seal the welch plugs or is that too 2010....

 

[SteveSr]

zama has a great site with tech support articles and exploded views I will look into the check valve luckily it is on the metering diaphragm side so I can check it out without removing the carb.

I wonder if this particular model C3-EL32 is a screw in type or pressed in.

Likely pressed...

 

[JONSSTIHL]

the check valve is only 4.20 cents on zama's site so if my dealer sells the gasket kit for 30$ the rebuild kit should be atleast 60$

 

[SteveSr]

found out the welch plug on my model is oblong shaped. are we still using nail polish to seal the welch plugs or is that too 2010....

Nail polish / seal-all, etc. is ineffective against any amount of ethanol. I have used water thin cyanoacrylate (super glue) but you will have to let it cure in a humid environment for several days before reassembling.

 

[SteveSr]

the check valve is only 4.20 cents on zama's site so if my dealer sells the gasket kit for 30$ the rebuild kit should be atleast 60$

Genuine Zama kits can be found on Ebay for $10-15 but a kit won't fix a main nozzle problem. A new carb may be in order.

 

[JONSSTIHL]

Just went to a small engine shop and the nozzle is around 5$ but not in stock and they can't say if it will be three weeks or three months wait. The carb kit is around 23$ so I got screwed at the other shop. Unfortunately, the c3 el32 carb is discontinued. Any ideas on what to replace it with? The carb not the saw. Besides the dealer has 60 Stihl MS 261's on backorder.


Also found out today that jonsered is redmax now in Canada so the equivalent saw is gz5000 any idea how many parts interchange with the husky. The 550 didn't seem to have a decomp button and I don't think I saw a primer bulb. Starting to worry that the redmax is equivalent to the mk 1 550 that had problems.


I guess step one is to clean out the carb a little more thoroughly paying special attention to the check valve.

 

[SteveSr]

Just went to a small engine shop and the nozzle is around 5$ but not in stock and they can't say if it will be three weeks or three months wait.

If you have a Zama part number for the nozzle best to shop online.

Unfortunately, the c3 el32 carb is discontinued. Any ideas on what to replace it with?

Husky should have a replacement.

I guess step one is to clean out the carb a little more thoroughly paying special attention to the check valve.

This is not likely to be productive. The disc degrades over time and fuel/alcohol exposure and starts sticking in the bore.

 

[HiOctane]

Looks like a vapor lock problem. Check inside the top cover if your plug is still there blocking hot air from engine.

 

[Old2stroke]

Since that saw has a primer bulb, you may have 2 check valves, a small brass fitting with a hole in it would be the check valve for the low speed fuel circuit and the main nozzle check valve is the one that feeds fuel into the venturi section of the carb. Depending on the type of check valve the carb has, the rubbery disc inside it may be replaceable, just do a search on "repair a nozzle check valve". Most people would rather just buy a new carb.

 

[JONSSTIHL]

the plug is still in the cover blocking the hot air.

 

[TRTermite]

I searched under Zama EL32 and a new OEM available for 69.95 Last one free shipping. Used one for 22.95

 

[JONSSTIHL]

I found an oem husq. for around 72$ but shipping is 38$ to canada. anyone have any horror stories abouts stens aftermarket carbs. it is 44$

I would rather go OEM on the carb since the original lasted 15 years. plus I put more than 30$ of gas in my car every day so what is another 30$ worth...

Checked out the nozzle last night it seems to not be blocked but it may be an intermittent thing with the heat from the engine.

I know someone mentioned winter gas before and that is what is in my can. it is just sad that a carb kit costs less that what it would cost me to dump a gallon of gas and start fresh.