Generac or Kohler whole home standby generator?

[JustPlainJeff]

Hey guys, I posted about losing power (again) in the "scrounging firewood thread", but I figure if I ask here, the question will get more exposure, and hopefully more responses.

We bought this house about nine or ten months ago. We're in the U.P., Iron River MI. Since buying the house, we've lost power due to storms three or four times now. All but one time, the power was out for a minimum of 24 hours, and this time for about 48 hours. We have another house about an hour away, and we were able to go to that house, since there was still power there. But we lost some of our freezer stuff, as we have several freezers here, and just one fridge/freezer combination at the other house, so not enough freezer room for all of our stuff.

In any event, we're tired of dealing with the power losses, and the inconvenience of it. I've already emailed a Generac company, as well as the Kohler generator division, to set up meetings with both companies for possible purchasing. Generac seems to be the big name in standby generators, but I've read somewhere, or somebody told me that the Kohler was a better unit. I don't remember why they said that though, and I'd like to know what you guys think of either or both brands of generators. What do you or don't you like about either? With a large dollar purchase, I'd like to make one that's as intelligent as possible.

If it matters, we have two 500 gallon propane tanks on our property now. One for the house, and one for the detached garage furnace. We do heat with propane, as is our gas stove and dryer. Somebody had told me last year when I was considering a generator purchase, that I may want to consider upgrading the house tank to a 1,000 gallon tank, as apparently propane powered generators are pretty thirsty.

So, any and all input is appreciated, thanks!

 

[LBF]

Both are big names but so far I’ve had no direct experience with either. I will say that a 5,000 watt gas generator is a bit thirsty. It is annoying to have to drag out and hook up a generator though when the power goes out. The standby generator is a huge improvement, it’s always set up and ready. A big advantage to those is say you left for work and the power went out when nobody is home, the standby would kick on and make sure the freezer isn’t thawed when you get home 8 hours later. I’m not certain, but I think they can even be programmed so that they don’t constantly run when power is out, but can cycle on and off which would help save fuel when say, everyone is sleeping or gone for work and all you have to do is maintain the freezer and such.

 

[sean donato]

When I worked as a diesel mechanic I got to work on a lot of generators, typically 200kw and up, but I did get to work on a few residential systems locally. Kohler and Generac are both big names in the residential field and commercial. You won't go wrong with either. Here at my place I went with generac ats transfer switch and will be installing an engine control unit on my Mosa generator. (Yanmar diesel powered) it's not unusual for us to loose power for several days as we're the dead end of the line. So met ed doesn't care If we're out of power or not. If I had gas or propane I would be looking into a 11-16 kw unit and basically getting whatever was cheaper of the two. Really can't go wrong with either.

 

[JustPlainJeff]

When I worked as a diesel mechanic I got to work on a lot of generators, typically 200kw and up, but I did get to work on a few residential systems locally. Kohler and Generac are both big names in the residential field and commercial. You won't go wrong with either. Here at my place I went with generac ats transfer switch and will be installing an engine control unit on my Mosa generator. (Yanmar diesel powered) it's not unusual for us to loose power for several days as we're the dead end of the line. So met ed doesn't care If we're out of power or not. If I had gas or propane I would be looking into a 11-16 kw unit and basically getting whatever was cheaper of the two. Really can't go wrong with either.

Thanks Sean.

 

[PJ41]

We have a Generac unit, gasoline powered. Had a transfer switch and exterior receptacle installed when we upgraded our fuse panel to breakers. Have had it for about six years, has always started when needed.

They like to be close to level before starting.

If I had to get another generator I would seriously consider propane powered.

Good luck!

 

[dboyd351]

One thing to check for is how your power company handles the transfer switch. In my area they will install a transfer switch for you, but you have to pay a monthly fee whether you ever use it or not. Given the infrequency of our power outages. I decided to stick with a 4000 watt propane generator instead of paying for a whole house unit plus paying a monthly fee for something I almost never need.

 

[JustPlainJeff]

One thing to check for is how your power company handles the transfer switch. In my area they will install a transfer switch for you, but you have to pay a monthly fee whether you ever use it or not. Given the infrequency of our power outages. I decided to stick with a 4000 watt propane generator instead of paying for a whole house unit plus paying a monthly fee for something I almost never need.

Good to know. I've never heard of paying a monthly fee for the transfer switch. I'll definitely ask when I talk to the salesmen. To my knowledge, around here, you just buy the switch, and have someone licensed install it for you.

 

[Toyboy]

I had a 20kw Generac installed in 2011 and it's been a very good unit. Ours runs on NG so there's no worry about fuel supply. The unit also came with a transfer switch so no extra cost for that. The only thing that I had to get done was the gas company had to change the meter to a larger volume meter to meet the demand and hire a plumber to do the gas line and regulator. Our house and heated garage use NG.
Changing from propane to NG is simply a lever on the carb.\

Our unit completely takes over both the house (3,800 sq ft) and garage (1,700sq ft) when we're on internal power because that's what I wanted. You can decide just how much you need/want to power and size the unit to your needs. The dealer will help you with that.
One word of advice though. Whatever brand you choose make sure the dealer/installer can do both electrical and mechanical service if needed.
A lot of electricians sell and install them, but are not qualified to handle to mechanical side of it. It can be a real PITA to get mechanical service if needed.

 

[JustPlainJeff]

I had a 20kw Generac installed in 2011 and it's been a very good unit. Ours runs on NG so there's no worry about fuel supply. The unit also came with a transfer switch so no extra cost for that. The only thing that I had to get done was the gas company had to change the meter to a larger volume meter to meet the demand and hire a plumber to do the gas line and regulator. Our house and heated garage use NG.
Changing from propane to NG is simply a lever on the carb.\

Our unit completely takes over both the house (3,800 sq ft) and garage (1,700sq ft) when we're on internal power because that's what I wanted. You can decide just how much you need/want to power and size the unit to your needs. The dealer will help you with that.
One word of advice though. Whatever brand you choose make sure the dealer/installer can do both electrical and mechanical service if needed.
A lot of electricians sell and install them, but are not qualified to handle to mechanical side of it. It can be a real PITA to get mechanical service if needed.

Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. Up here, I don't think NG is even an option. I honestly don't know much about Natural Gas, but I believe that has to be "piped in", correct? I think up here, it's either propane or electric. And of course wood boiler, which we have as well. The forced air furnace is powered by propane, but I'm not even sure how the wood boiler works. The heat from it is radiant though. We just bought the house 9 or 10 months ago, and just used propane last Winter, since I didn't have enough wood stored to use the boiler. But after spending 5 or 6K on propane last Winter, I'm now trying to cut enough standing dead wood from our own land to stockpile the 8 cords or so that I'll need to get through the Winter. I'll have a HVAC company come in and explain the wood boiler's use to me sometime late this Summer, prior to needing heat.

 

[Toyboy]

Correct, NG is piped in. When we lived in S Wisc we also had a Generac but it was in the early days of automatic home standby units (1994) and the biggest then was 8kw. That was propane and again we never had trouble with that one either. One thing to remember is the fuel consumption listed in specs, whether it being NG or propane, is for max demand. Rarely if ever will you have everything pulling power at the same time. So they are more fuel efficient then you think. But then again, if you've had a major ice storm and there is a lot of damage to the grid, you can't put a price on peace of mind.
My wife and I are senior citizens, and going through the hassle of using a portable unit is out of the question, although a lot of seniors do. Having automatic start and stop we don't have to do anything, or even be home. Sweet.
A couple of our friends have followed my lead and 2 have 17kw Generac's and one went with Kohler 17kw. 2 more are going to have one installed but right now availability is tight.

Here, we have 2 refrigerators and a freezer, well, septic lift pump, dryer, AC and 2 microwaves as our main draws. Everything else minimal. I've changed all the incandescent light bulbs over to LED's (over 120 bulbs), to load shed. But even if I did not do that, using lights is selective on your part.

 

[Abbeville TSI]

We live in South Central Virginia, and can count on at least one outage every winter due to ice storms. Currently we use a 5000 Kw Kawasaki portable generator which will power the essentials- light, heat and, water pump. We can watch the boob tube. Can't use the electric stove or other high resistance units. I usually turn the generator off when we go to bed to conserve the gasoline supply.
I'd like to have a standby generator for convenience, and I'd like to replace the electric stove for a propane unit, but just a simple stove without a clock, timer or other fancy stuff. I can still cook outdoors with two Big Green Eggs and a Karubecue wood fired smoker. The KBQ needs current to run the fans but that is a minimal load.
Heat is oil fired baseboard hot water, power for the gun and little water pump is not a heavy load. I should have installed an OWB years ago but was working two jobs and no time to cut wood then. Shouda, coulda, woulda, you know how that goes....
So a standby unit that will run the essentials without choking up if two heavy users are working and can be turned off and on manually would fit my needs. I already have a manual transfer switch so I can get by without an ATS.

 

[Toyboy]

I think you mean 5000w not kw.

 

[sean donato]

You'd actually be amazed what you can run if you figure it out your amp draw. Here I just have to kill the electric water heater then live life as normal. Well more or less normal. The fridge and deep freeze can both run, whatever lights we want, 2 6000 btu ac units, well pump, TV. It's all about what the load is other wise your just spinning an engine. Typically figure about 20% bigger then you "need" or kill breakers like I currently do. A generator sub feed is nice if you just want to do essentials as well. Takes the guess work out of what can and can't be run.

 

[Oletrapper]

On March 11, 2012 we were hit by a tornado here in KY. We had some damage to our farm but mostly minor. With that said, we were without power for over 3 days. I said, that will never happen again. I had a 27kw Generac with transfer switch professionally installed in June of 2012. It runs the entire farm. House with 2 freezers, 1 refrigerator, hot water heater, AC, lights, etc., and powers the barn with 1 freezer, 1 refrigerator (beer box, lol), air compressor, etc. The unit runs on propane. Separate 500 gal. tank. It self tests every Wednesday at 2PM and runs for 15 min. It has run continuously many times for over 5 hrs because of outages and three or four times for well over 24 hours.
It is not heavy on propane usage like was mentioned in an earlier post. Since 2012, it has probably used less than 200 gal of propane. It's easy to maintain and the unit will let you know when maintenance is needed by turning on a yellow light. Back then the total cost of the unit which came with the transfer switch, (which is a must), was just over 6k with installation.
Good luck with which ever you decide on. One word of advice, don't under power. Go big or stay at home as they say. I believe you will be happy with which ever one you chose. jmho OT

 

[Husky Man]

I was working out of town for 2 weeks in 2020, when the power company “De-Energized ” our area for a week, due to Fire Danger. My portable unit wasn’t much good, as I wasn’t home to set it up.

We lost 2 large upright freezers full of food, as well as 2 refrigerator/freezers full of food. When the power came back on, the surge blew out our Dishwasher, the microwave ovens at both the house and my Wife’s Hair Salon, plus a few other small appliances. We figured that we lost over $3,500 in food and damaged appliances, which neither the power company, nor the insurance company would cover any of the losses

We also were out of power for 5 days that winter because of storm damage.

Last August (2021) we were concerned about more planned “De-Energized Events “, and called around, and Costco had 2 Honeywell 20KW units left in the Portland area, so we hitched up the trailer and headed into town, and brought one home.
It is a fully automated unit that, IIRC can be controlled remotely by phone/internet, and came with the ATS, for $4,200.
Earlier this year they had a slightly upgraded version (22KW) for $5,200, but I haven’t seen any of those in the stores for quite some time now, I don’t know what the availability is.

The propane tanks have become very difficult to get, and the prices have essentially doubled, when they can be found. Searching online, back in February, I found a large home improvement chain that listed the 420# (nominal 100 gallon) tanks as available, with a 90 day lead time, I wish that had even been close. We ordered 8 tanks Feb 26th, they were supposed to be delivered to the store May 15th, that got pushed out to June 16th, then another email pushing them out to July 14th, then last Monday June 13th, with dread, I opened a new email, to be Pleasantly Surprised that the delivery date was revised to July 1st.

I Hope that the new date is accurate, as their nearest store is Cheyenne, WY, is where we will be picking them up. It will be about a 2,500 mile round trip to pick them up. We are keeping 2 tanks for ourselves, and have commitments on at least 4 of the other 6 tanks already, just talking to people we know, without advertising them at all. The price difference between what is sometimes available locally, and what we paid to order them is worthwhile to make the trip. It is a road trip that the Wife and I are looking forward to, but the price of fuel is going to add a bit to each tank compared to when this trip was planned in February

In our area, the 100 gallon tanks are about the largest that can be placed without setback requirements from the house, a serious consideration for us.

While “Leasing “ a tank from a propane company isn’t expensive on its face, you are committed to buying propane from ONLY that company, and the difference in price between filling a leased tank, and being able to shop around for the Best delivered price can be substantial. Plus no other company will fill a leased tank, and if the company that you leased from can’t get to your area when needed, you can be in a really Bad situation, as happened to a Friend of my Wife, she ordered a refill, with what should have been an adequate lead time, and when they were supposed to show up, they were “Short Handed” and like the member at the very end of the power line, she wasn’t the priority, and went almost a week without heat in the winter ( guess who is interested in at least one of our tanks?)

We are looking forward to getting our tanks, and the standby generator set up, my Wife has been on supplemental oxygen since late last September, and is reliant on her oxygen concentrator, so this is even more important than when we bought it



Doug

 

[Brufab]

I would go with the generac, have used and abused many a generator and have nothing bad to say. Will have a whole house one getting installed here in a few weeks that runs on lp

 

[Sagnasty]

After numerous power outages along with the inconvenience of running a gasoline powered 4000 Watt generator with manual transfer switch, I installed a 11kw Generac running on NG (Installed in 2014). This unit has been trouble free and my only regret was not having done it earlier. A couple of suggestions from my experience:

1. Make sure to get the cold weather kit (oil filter warmer). Mine had a hard time starting when the temp went below 5 degrees F. I purchased mine separately as a kit and installed myself (install instructions are straight forward).
2. Consider increasing the gas pipe and electrical line sizes. I had my installation sized for a 20Kw unit as I wanted to cover myself in case I decided later that a larger Genset was needed (which was not the case). Also note that the same ATS is typically used for the various sized generators (making an upgrade to a larger unit much simpler if the larger gas/electrical capacity is already installed). Increasing the gas pipe size is even more important to consider if your supply is NG (due to the lower / fluctuating gas pressures and the distance the gas must travel). The material cost difference is small and the labor cost is roughly the same.
3. When sizing the generator, bear in mind "wants vs needs". You have a finite amount of propane and a larger Genset will use more fuel for no useful reason if the additional current capacity is not used (it is a bigger engine). IMHO, I would lean towards an extended run time as opposed to having the ability to run items that are not absolutely required.
4. As @Toyboy suggests, be sure that the dealer/installer can handle the mech side of things. If you have an issue, it will typically be mech related as opposed to electrical.

 

[Brufab]

that's the size my dad is getting installed this month, says 5 days on 400 gal of lp I think.

 

[Sagnasty]

10 kW model: 400 gal tank div 1.48 LP gal/hr div 24 hrs = 11.3 days run time at full load

Generac recommends minimum size Lp tank of 250 gal.

Screenshot from the Generac site on the 10/14/18 series:

 

[sundance]

You'd actually be amazed what you can run if you figure it out your amp draw. Here I just have to kill the electric water heater then live life as normal. Well more or less normal. The fridge and deep freeze can both run, whatever lights we want, 2 6000 btu ac units, well pump, TV. It's all about what the load is other wise your just spinning an engine. Typically figure about 20% bigger then you "need" or kill breakers like I currently do. A generator sub feed is nice if you just want to do essentials as well. Takes the guess work out of what can and can't be run.

@sean donato
I don't think I saw mention of what size diesel generator you have. Care to share?