Hand file question

[maowwg]

How do you tell when your hook is too aggressive? Noticed that I will be cutting through decent sized logs and after maybe 3/4 of a tank, my chain will go dull.

I expect a saw to go dull but it’s how fast it goes from chips to dust that I’m questioning and wondering if it’s my filing geometry.

If you have slightly too much hook, does the chain go dull right away as the top plate is bent down, or do you get 3/4 of a tank out of that filing and suddenly go dull?

I’m not seeing bent top plates when resharpening. I’m seeing worn dull working corners. What I’m questioning is how I can cut strong for 3/4 of a tank, see the slightest indication of saw dust in my chips and 3 or 4 cuts later be throwing sawdust and 2 or 3 more cuts and I’m dull.

I’m bucking 14 to 18 inch logs with an 18 inch low profile 3/8 .50 chain. It happened more noticeable with the full chisel chain than the semi chisel.

 

[Squareground3691]

Using the correct file size according to chain pitch not under cutting the top plate to much so it thins it out and creates a weak cutting edge, there’s and example of what it should look like .

 

[user 122190]

If in doubt compare to a new factory chain.

 

[sand sock]

ive never used low profile. just use 3/8, with the single raker i use 3 different ways, depending on what i am seeing the chain look like. i use a round file. teh old fashioned jig and teh stihl 2n1 jig. then occasionally i use a flat file.

i start off with teh 2n1 especially when i need the rakers dropped.
i may use that a few times , then go over to the old fashioned sit on top jig. it works the top of the cutter a bit better.
when i see the hook disappearing. i will drop back to a free hand round file, to build the hoook back, then use a flat file, to drop teh rakers. but i do the free hand in the shop on the vice.

some of how to do it, is experience. i will very lightly run my hand over the chain. if i dont feel it snagging my calloused hands. i need more hook or the rakers dropped.

if you have that double raker, those are notorius for going gettind dull quick/ i dont know why. the local dealer, wont even offer to sell the double raker unles your a new face. to the chain saw world.

i touch up my chain all the time. almost every gas tank. i try to never let the saw run out of gas. it acts as a radiater to keep the engine cooler. you might be getting into gunk in the log or hitting dirt. or your oiler isnt running enough oil and the chains over heating and getting dull. it could be so many little things.

 

[Mad Professor]

If it's really too much hook cutter will fold under or fold back. A file holder like Oregon will get the file at proper height. When you get good to go with that you can try freehand.

 

[maowwg]

The top plate is not folding up or down and when sharpening, I’m taking the top plate back to form a new corner because my corners are gone. The top plate is still intact. I’m using 5/32 file called for by the chain manufacturer. Oregon file guide with a small shim to get low enough to reach the gullet. Without the shim I lose my hook over a couple sharpenings.

 

[ericm979]

Make sure you file enough so the chrome runs all the way to the cutting edge. You can make a "sharp" chain without doing that. It will feel and look sharp. But the edge will be in the softer base metal and will not last. If you look closely at the teeth you can see a different colored line if the chrome is not all the way to the edge. It may take reading glasses or a magnifier to see clearly, especially if you're older.

 

[HumBurner]

The top plate is not folding up or down and when sharpening, I’m taking the top plate back to form a new corner because my corners are gone. The top plate is still intact. I’m using 5/32 file called for by the chain manufacturer. Oregon file guide with a small shim to get low enough to reach the gullet. Without the shim I lose my hook over a couple sharpenings.

View attachment 1001048View attachment 1001049

If it was me, I'd even out where the cutter and gullet meet at the "O" in OREGON

With an 11/64 or 3/16 file, try to reestablish the hook as you grind at the thin layer I suggested.

At the current profile, you're depth gagues are off. If you can change the angle of the hook and bring it back together, you might could get a tank or two without hitting the depths, but they'll need attention soon anyways.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

How do you tell when your hook is too aggressive? Noticed that I will be cutting through decent sized logs and after maybe 3/4 of a tank, my chain will go dull.
I expect a saw to go dull but it’s how fast it goes from chips to dust that I’m questioning and wondering if it’s my filing geometry.
If you have slightly too much hook, does the chain go dull right away as the top plate is bent down, or do you get 3/4 of a tank out of that filing and suddenly go dull?
I’m not seeing bent top plates when resharpening. I’m seeing worn dull working corners. What I’m questioning is how I can cut strong for 3/4 of a tank, see the slightest indication of saw dust in my chips and 3 or 4 cuts later be throwing sawdust and 2 or 3 more cuts and I’m dull.
I’m bucking 14 to 18 inch logs with an 18 inch low profile 3/8 .50 chain. It happened more noticeable with the full chisel chain than the semi chisel.

I think many or most will agree that Low Profile chain has problems thus making rakers very sensitive to their height. Unless rakers are very exact the cutter skims over the wood more getting hot and damaged. Chisel chain is even more sensitive. There are many debates that have gone here to address chisel vs. semi chisel. So choose semi chain starting with rakers a little low causing the bar to grab and shake then allow the chain to catch up to the rakers and see if you get the chain to perform with more long lasting edge. Many make the cutting edge with the gullet a little less aggressive with great results. Thanks

 

[OM617YOTA]

The top plate is not folding up or down and when sharpening, I’m taking the top plate back to form a new corner because my corners are gone. The top plate is still intact. I’m using 5/32 file called for by the chain manufacturer. Oregon file guide with a small shim to get low enough to reach the gullet. Without the shim I lose my hook over a couple sharpenings.

View attachment 1001048View attachment 1001049

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I'd run more hook than that, and lower rakers, and don't have early dull issues. Post some pics of the wood you're cutting.

Also, your bar needs attention.

 

[maowwg]

Make sure you file enough so the chrome runs all the way to the cutting edge. You can make a "sharp" chain without doing that. It will feel and look sharp. But the edge will be in the softer base metal and will not last. If you look closely at the teeth you can see a different colored line if the chrome is not all the way to the edge. It may take reading glasses or a magnifier to see clearly, especially if you're older.

If I’m filing the top plate back to the point where I form a new working corner shouldn’t I be into the chrome at that point?

 

[maowwg]

I think many or most will agree that Low Profile chain has problems thus making rakers very sensitive to their height. Unless rakers are very exact the cutter skims over the wood more getting hot and damaged. Chisel chain is even more sensitive. There are many debates that have gone here to address chisel vs. semi chisel. So choose semi chain starting with rakers a little low causing the bar to grab and shake then allow the chain to catch up to the rakers and see if you get the chain to perform with more long lasting edge. Many make the cutting edge with the gullet a little less aggressive with great results. Thanks

So raker depth vs hook causes premature wear? I had not considered that. I’ve not found the Oregon gage with the notch in the middle to be all that useful. When a sharp chain doesn’t immediately throw nice robust chips I give the rakers each 2-3 passes with the flat file and look at the chips. Often times I’m a stroke or two lower than what the gage would allow.

 

[Del_]

Twenty percent of the diameter of the file should be above the top plate to get the right amount of hook.

Don't worry about getting the gullet with the same strokes that file the top plate.

Clearing the gullet is most often a separate step.

 

[cookies]

those tie straps are worn unevenly, the chain is rocking side to side in the bar groove during cutting because the bar is worn out

 

[ericm979]

If I’m filing the top plate back to the point where I form a new working corner shouldn’t I be into the chrome at that point?

Not if the chain was well worn. Arguably you should sharpen it before then, but sometimes that doesn't happen. That's why its best to look at some teeth close up, just in case.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Many times its embedded grit in the wood that dulls chains quickly no matter how they are filed. Even when cutting the same species of wood, some stands I can cut for the whole day without the chain dulling, on other stands in a different location the chain may dull in a tank or two, often from embedded grit/sand or dust from a nearby gravel road. If the top plate was filed very thin the chain would likely be very grabby at first until the edge was ripped off, indicating it is sharpened incorrectly. Chisel chain will dull more quickly in gritty wood, semi chisel is better in that kind of material, as it has a rounded cutting edge compared to the smaller sharp corner of the chisel chain, the small sharp corner wears away more quickly on the chisel cutters.

 

[scottr]

So raker depth vs hook causes premature wear? I had not considered that. I’ve not found the Oregon gage with the notch in the middle to be all that useful. When a sharp chain doesn’t immediately throw nice robust chips I give the rakers each 2-3 passes with the flat file and look at the chips. Often times I’m a stroke or two lower than what the gage would allow.

maowwg , what saw are you running this 3/8 low profile chain on and how thick are your robust chips ?

 

[maowwg]

maowwg , what saw are you running this 3/8 low profile chain on and how thick are your robust chips ?m

 

[maowwg]

My junk saw is a 42 CC Poulan 2550 with muffler mod.

 

[scottr]

My muffler modded 42cc PP220 uses 3/8 low profile chain and I set the depth dauges to 0.025" . It has been a good saw for the 18 years that I have owned it . Do you know what the depth gauge setting is that you like on your 2550 ?