Question about dropping dead/dying and leaning ash and bar/saw size.

[soloz2]

Question, I’m in the process of taking down dead ash trees on my property before they start falling on their own. Started out with 78 or so and we have just over 40 to go. I have a MS261c with both a 18” and a 20” B&C setup. I primarily run the 18” setup. I also have a MS180 with 16” B&C that I’ll use as a backup and for smaller stuff limbing.
Of the trees left nearly all are 12-16” diameter, but there are a couple that measure in the 19-21” range. Subtracting about an inch to account for the dogs that means I can drop the larger trees if I come from both sides, but knowing they are mostly dead and leaning I’m wondering about safety. I have gotten quite proficient at tree work for a homeowner and have all the appropriate safety gear so that isn’t a concern. I have never felled a tree before I didn’t have a bar that I could just do it all from one side before. I’d love to grab one of the new MS400c but I’m not sure I can really justify the expense right now if I could even find one. So I guess I’m asking if it would really be safer to be able to run a longer bar, or if I’m over thinking this?

 

[TheJollyLogger]

You're overthinking this, but get the ms400 anyway...

 

[ValleyForge]

Dead stuff = death

big dead stuff = bigger death

the 261 is an awesome saw, and I absolutely love mine, but even I put the 500 on anything dead, no matter the diameter. The intent of the bigger saw is to continue cutting no matter what’s going on with the tree.

post pics of your new 400!!!

 

[soloz2]

Checked with my dealer this morning and nothing larger than a 311 in stock and at least 6 months for a 400. She said she had multiple larger saws on order, but no idea when they would come in. I was wondering if I'd even be able to find a 400.
So, not sure if I want to look at other brands. I don't really have any experience with Husqvarna, and I have an Echo blower, that starts up very easily so I may be more inclined to look at Echo, but I know they are heavier. The 620P is popular. Not sure I could even get one, and if I could if a 60cc saw would be enough of a jump in power over my 261c to justify the expense. Also looking at some of the 60cc range saws there's a decent bump in weight and not a whole lot more power. I take it the larger engine has more torque which allows for a larger bar? The Echo CS590 is rated for less HP than my 261 despite having nearly 10cc more and being able to pull a larger bar.
Maybe I just wait for a larger Stihl. IDK.

 

[ValleyForge]

Checked with my dealer this morning and nothing larger than a 311 in stock and at least 6 months for a 400. She said she had multiple larger saws on order, but no idea when they would come in. I was wondering if I'd even be able to find a 400.
So, not sure if I want to look at other brands. I don't really have any experience with Husqvarna, and I have an Echo blower, that starts up very easily so I may be more inclined to look at Echo, but I know they are heavier. The 620P is popular. Not sure I could even get one, and if I could if a 60cc saw would be enough of a jump in power over my 261c to justify the expense. Also looking at some of the 60cc range saws there's a decent bump in weight and not a whole lot more power. I take it the larger engine has more torque which allows for a larger bar? The Echo CS590 is rated for less HP than my 261 despite having nearly 10cc more and being able to pull a larger bar.
Maybe I just wait for a larger Stihl. IDK.

If you want a saw, now it the time to figure it out. Saws have been hard to get since the government tried to make things better. Germanys industry is faltering so getting Stihl products will only get worse.

I haven’t even seen any on eBay, that’s how bad things are….

 

[TheJollyLogger]

You'll be fine cutting from both sides, just take your time and be careful.

 

[Lionsfan]

Are they still solid with the bark intact, or getting punky? Have the tops busted off, or are they up there dangling by a thread? What makes them safe to cut from one side with a longer bar as opposed to cutting from both sides with a shorter one?

 

[Bango Skank]

My vote is that you’re good to go. Sure a bigger saw and 24” bar would be ideal, but assuming it’s running and oiling properly, an MS-261 with a 20” B&C is very capable of handling 22” ash.

 

[soloz2]

Some of them are just getting pretty bad. Bark is starting to peel and fall off. We had a strong storm a few weeks back that sheered the tops off 4 of my pines and took out a cedar tree. It cracked a few ash that I could see at ground level so I took 5 down right away. Without pulling bark off the rest I can't tell for sure how stable they are. My game plan is to get as many of them down as I can over the next few weeks, but with about 45 trees left to go it'll take me some time still.

Are they still solid with the bark intact, or getting punky? Have the tops busted off, or are they up there dangling by a thread? What makes them safe to cut from one side with a longer bar as opposed to cutting from both sides with a shorter one?

 

[soloz2]

Had some appointments this afternoon and swung into a Stihl/Echo dealer. I only had about 10 minutes so I didn’t do more than look, but they had a MS362, MS391, and a MS462 as well as some smaller Stihl saws, but none other that would really be a step up in power from my 261. Dealer suggested the 391 which I hadn’t really considered as the build quality is just so much better on my 261 vs my 180 and little things like better air filter and capacitive bar nuts make a difference in every day use. They didn’t have a MS400 or a CS620p, but they did have a couple CS7310 which is kinda tempting. 73cc for about the price of the 400 so I’d have more headroom if I ever wanted to run a longer bar. But I know I’m not good at tuning carbs which is one of the reasons I was looking for a moronic saw. The 462 price is just too much to justify right now, but I might be able to justify 1k. I saw another dealer FB said they had a 400 a couple weeks ago so I will probably call tomorrow. I ran out of time today.

Part of me is somewhat concerned and confused about how a saw with barely more power than my 261 and sometimes less HP can be rated to pull a 24-25” bar. I do know oiler is a big factor, and a larger engine likely has more torque even if HP is essentially the same, but it makes me wonder. That said, could I run a 24” skip tooth .325 combo on my 261 for just the couple trees that are larger?

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Had some appointments this afternoon and swung into a Stihl/Echo dealer. I only had about 10 minutes so I didn’t do more than look, but they had a MS362, MS391, and a MS462 as well as some smaller Stihl saws, but none other that would really be a step up in power from my 261. Dealer suggested the 391 which I hadn’t really considered as the build quality is just so much better on my 261 vs my 180 and little things like better air filter and capacitive bar nuts make a difference in every day use. They didn’t have a MS400 or a CS620p, but they did have a couple CS7310 which is kinda tempting. 73cc for about the price of the 400 so I’d have more headroom if I ever wanted to run a longer bar. But I know I’m not good at tuning carbs which is one of the reasons I was looking for a moronic saw. The 462 price is just too much to justify right now, but I might be able to justify 1k. I saw another dealer FB said they had a 400 a couple weeks ago so I will probably call tomorrow. I ran out of time today.

Part of me is somewhat concerned and confused about how a saw with barely more power than my 261 and sometimes less HP can be rated to pull a 24-25” bar. I do know oiler is a big factor, and a larger engine likely has more torque even if HP is essentially the same, but it makes me wonder. That said, could I run a 24” skip tooth .325 combo on my 261 for just the couple trees that are larger?

Yes

 

[soloz2]

I had some time this morning and called around. I also dis some searching for a 24" B&C setup for my 261c and I wasn't able to find a .325 24" bar. 20" is the longest I could find and it is the longest Stihl recommends for my saw so that is probably a bust unless I want to convert to 3/8".
I found an Echo 620p with 20" bar in stock for $600, but they would have to get the 24" B&C separately so it'd be a bit more for that. I was also able to find an Echo CS7310p with 28" bar for $1020 in stock.
I found some MS400C in stock locally and can get it with a 25" B&C for $999.
I think I'd definitely prefer the 400, but with how much prices have been going up it's a tough pill to swallow right now and I've got to think about it. The 620 price is easier to justify, but I am somewhat concerned about if it would be a good investment considering I already have a 50cc saw I really like and going up 9.5cc would give me two similarly powered saws, where going to a 67-73cc saw would be a more substantial increase in power and I don't have the same concerns about that. All in all, I'm sure a 60cc would do what I need today.

 

[Lionsfan]

Find yourself a good used 372xp with a 24" bar and you'll have all the saw you'll ever need.

 

[soloz2]

I ended up swinging by an echo dealer not too far away yesterday afternoon. They had a 620p and a 7310 on the shelf. Surprisingly the 7310 felt more natural and balanced despite being the larger saw. I opted for the 620p. I think it’ll do what I need and I’ve seen one in action before. They at first said they didn’t have a 24” bar for it then found an old one they sold me for cheap. Don’t know much about it, but when I got home I searched the PN and it shows it fits the old CS900. I pulled the side cover, realized the tensioner is in the cover and not in the saw like I’m used too. There seemed to be a bit more play in the bar mount than I’m used to so before I really use the saw I want to make sure it’s correct. I added a couple pictures including next to my 261c

 

[soloz2]

Some more searching seems the saw takes a D176 mount and the 24” bar they sold me is a D196 mount. It’s different enough when I was putting the bar on and went to pull up to tension the chain the bar angles up quite a bit.
I found this mount comparison: https://www.chainsawbars.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Oregon-Bar-Mounts-Catalogue.pdf

Here’s some pictures of the bar studs and the width of the opening of each bar.
They were also supposed to include a 20” bar and chain and they included an 18” instead.
Extremely disappointing as I was planning on using the saw this afternoon after meetings are done. Instead I’ll be calling them and asking them to make it right.

 

[Woody912]

Had some appointments this afternoon and swung into a Stihl/Echo dealer. I only had about 10 minutes so I didn’t do more than look, but they had a MS362, MS391, and a MS462 as well as some smaller Stihl saws, but none other that would really be a step up in power from my 261. Dealer suggested the 391 which I hadn’t really considered as the build quality is just so much better on my 261 vs my 180 and little things like better air filter and capacitive bar nuts make a difference in every day use. They didn’t have a MS400 or a CS620p, but they did have a couple CS7310 which is kinda tempting. 73cc for about the price of the 400 so I’d have more headroom if I ever wanted to run a longer bar. But I know I’m not good at tuning carbs which is one of the reasons I was looking for a moronic saw. The 462 price is just too much to justify right now, but I might be able to justify 1k. I saw another dealer FB said they had a 400 a couple weeks ago so I will probably call tomorrow. I ran out of time today.

Part of me is somewhat concerned and confused about how a saw with barely more power than my 261 and sometimes less HP can be rated to pull a 24-25” bar. I do know oiler is a big factor, and a larger engine likely has more torque even if HP is essentially the same, but it makes me wonder. That said, could I run a 24” skip tooth .325 combo on my 261 for just the couple trees that are larger?

362 will exceed your requirements

 

[MRCLYDE]

The 362 is a great saw, but the 261 is adequete for what you're doing, keep it sharp and well oiled.

But if you can find a good used, MS 460 or a 372 Husky you would have all the bases covered and they would likely outlast you.

 

[soloz2]

Swapped the 18 for a 20" bar and fired up the saw after work. It definitely idled rough at first, but it started to run a bit better after warming up. It runs significantly hotter than my Stihls do, it oiled well, but the bar was still hot to the touch. I may need to oil the sprocket. Never had to do that on my Stihl bars.
I do think the tune needs to be adjusted. I may need to go back to the dealer for that.

I dropped two trees, limbed, and bucked them. I still have some cleanup to do tomorrow, but it was getting late and it's been a long day so I finish tomorrow.

Compared to my 261c
It's significantly more fatiguing to run. It is noticably heavier and vibrates more. It feels wider, but it didn't really look wider when I set them side by side.
It doesn't rev as quickly, seems to spin the chain maybe a bit slower, but may have a bit more torque. It doesn't feel more powerful, but I just ran about a tank through it so it needs to be broken in before it wakes up.

Told my wife it was significantly more fatiguing to run and she just looks me dead and says do you need to return it and get the Stihl?

I'll attach a couple videos, but will have to host elsewhere.

 

[soloz2]

Link to videos of it running. I'm hoping the saw opens up a bit as it feels like it has about the same power as my 261, with more weight and vibration. But maybe a tune and a few tanks through it will clear that up.

 

[Charlie Coyote]

Checked with my dealer this morning and nothing larger than a 311 in stock and at least 6 months for a 400. She said she had multiple larger saws on order, but no idea when they would come in. I was wondering if I'd even be able to find a 400.
So, not sure if I want to look at other brands. I don't really have any experience with Husqvarna, and I have an Echo blower, that starts up very easily so I may be more inclined to look at Echo, but I know they are heavier. The 620P is popular. Not sure I could even get one, and if I could if a 60cc saw would be enough of a jump in power over my 261c to justify the expense. Also looking at some of the 60cc range saws there's a decent bump in weight and not a whole lot more power. I take it the larger engine has more torque which allows for a larger bar? The Echo CS590 is rated for less HP than my 261 despite having nearly 10cc more and being able to pull a larger bar.
Maybe I just wait for a larger Stihl. IDK.

I went through this last August when I fried my Husqvarna 359. Learned about Echo and chose the CS620PW 27". It's got a lot more muscle for hundreds less than comparable Stihl or Husqvarna models for hundreds less. The 5 year homeowner warranty doesn't require bogus priced fuel purchases like Husqvarna. It's 4.5 HP engine has plenty of torque to pull full chisel buried in 40" knotty pine trunks. Found it online. They're available from Forest Suppliers.