Question about chains

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lab-rat

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Johnathan, the gentlemen that I talked about in this thread http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=84662 suggested that I get rid of the safety chain and get something else. I'm not sure what to get?
What would be good for my 5100 or CC 5018? What would be good for a inexperience person like myself? thanks again guys:cheers: -dave-
 
Use up the safety chain, then move into regular chain. Chain starts all kinds of debate here just like oil (mix or bar), but I prefer Stihl, but Carlton is cheaper. I have a lot more Carlton than Stihl because of that fact. Get a semi-chisel which will cut a bit slower but hold an edge longer, and be happy with life.

Mark
 
Use up the safety chain, then move into regular chain. Chain starts all kinds of debate here just like oil (mix or bar), but I prefer Stihl, but Carlton is cheaper. I have a lot more Carlton than Stihl because of that fact. Get a semi-chisel which will cut a bit slower but hold an edge longer, and be happy with life.

Mark
It cuts slower then the safety chain? thanks -dave-
 
No not necess cut slower! I personally love the carlton A1L Non safety! 5100's really cut good with it!
 
I agree with the semi-chisel non-safety chain recommendation. Stihl RM (Rapid Micro) is what I run. Semi-chisel chain is much more forgiving in dirty wood and for situations where you may hit the ground a little bit, than full chisel. However, this does not mean that if you ground your saw you do not need to sharpen your chain, it just means that it will probably just need to be touched up with a file instead of more extensive resharpening. I am sure your know this, but anytime you ground any chain you need to touch it up with a file.
 
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No not necess cut slower! I personally love the carlton A1L Non safety! 5100's really cut good with it!
Ok so what chain do I get? Do I just match up the #'s and get the same in a semi skip or semi chisel or whatever? thanks -dave-
 
I agree with the semi-chisel non-safety chain recommendation. Stihl RM (Rapid Micro) is what I run. Semi-chisel chain is much more forgiving in dirty wood and for situations where you may hit the ground a little bit, than full chisel. However, this does not mean that if you ground your saw you do not need to sharpen your chain, it just means that it will probably just need to be touched up with a file instead of more extensive resharpening. I am sure your know this, but anytime you ground any chain you need to touch it up with a file.
Think I follow you! by ground to you mean actually hitting the ground(dirt)? -dave-
 
Hey Dave,

Yes. I meant any time you are cutting and you accidentally hit the ground or dirt, mud, etc. with your bar and chain. It will instantly dull any chain.
 
Dave. I'm not sure what your cutting conditions are but if you are looking for a more aggressive chain but aren’t sure about getting away from the safety chain yet I'd say get a loop of the Stihl RSC-3 chain and give it a try. If the wood your cutting is dirty or you keep grounding the chain when you cut then you might look at the Stihl RMC-3, it won't be as fast as the RSC-3 but it will hold it's edge better in not so perfect conditions.

If your ready to let go of the safety chain all together there is no better chain on the market than Stihl RSC for clean wood (well maybe RSLK but you don't need that hassle yet ;)). If your cutting conditions (or technique) are less than desirable then Stihls RMC is the way to go.

If you live in one of those places where the Stihl chain rivals the price of gold or your new found dealer doesn't stock it (I skimmed over your other thread..... ya can't get that at Wal-mart, take care of that man and buy from him every chance you get ;)) then Carlton is a fine runner up to the Stihl chain. Not to long ago I would have told anybody that would listen that I'd run a Stihl chain backwards before I'd put an Oregon chain on my saw but I have to say that the new Oregon "X" series of chains is leaps and bounds better than their old offerings. In fact I'd rank the Oregon LGX second in line to the Stihl RSC these days and above the Carlton.

Anyway hope this helps. :cheers:
 
Dave. I'm not sure what your cutting conditions are but if you are looking for a more aggressive chain but aren’t sure about getting away from the safety chain yet I'd say get a loop of the Stihl RSC-3 chain and give it a try. If the wood your cutting is dirty or you keep grounding the chain when you cut then you might look at the Stihl RMC-3, it won't be as fast as the RSC-3 but it will hold it's edge better in not so perfect conditions.

If your ready to let go of the safety chain all together there is no better chain on the market than Stihl RSC for clean wood (well maybe RSLK but you don't need that hassle yet ;)). If your cutting conditions (or technique) are less than desirable then Stihls RMC is the way to go.

If you live in one of those places where the Stihl chain rivals the price of gold or your new found dealer doesn't stock it (I skimmed over your other thread..... ya can't get that at Wal-mart, take care of that man and buy from him every chance you get ;)) then Carlton is a fine runner up to the Stihl chain. Not to long ago I would have told anybody that would listen that I'd run a Stihl chain backwards before I'd put an Oregon chain on my saw but I have to say that the new Oregon "X" series of chains is leaps and bounds better than their old offerings. In fact I'd rank the Oregon LGX second in line to the Stihl RSC these days and above the Carlton.

Anyway hope this helps. :cheers:
Most of the trees are blackjack. I'm going to try to keep the oaks that are on the property. I really appreciate the help. I have no problem buying stihl chains and I will buy them from johnathan I just want to make sure that what I get cross references with whats on there now. I don't know chains and if they differ when you go to a more aggressive chain.(does that make sense?) thanks -dave-
 
I don't know what a blackjack tree is, so maybe it's really hard? In any case, you will of course need at least a couple extra chains, so, yes, I'd go with a little more aggressive one and you'll be less "inexperienced" as time goes on anyway. Now, when I bought a new saw a few yr. ago, it came with a safety chain. The dealer told me they were required to sell the saw with it but he threw in a couple of chisels, he knew me and knew I was many yr. into using both round and square chisel. I decided to leave the safety chain on the new saw during break-in, just for the heck of it. I was quite surprised to find it cut really well [Stihl green]. I still use chisel full time, but the safety stuff was quite ok. Personally have standardized my chains to all be round chisel [RS] and really like it [round chisel]. No tricks to sharpening, minimized problems in a little dirtier wood [up here, sand blown into bark by very high winds...dulls square chisel in no time but round can go on a while]. Around here, prices on chain loops aren't too different for different styles, so you can experiment a bit, too, without breaking the bank.
 
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Safety chain is really a misnomer it is actually low kickback or reduced kickback chain. Safety chain will cut you just as bad as non-safety chain. If sharp, the performance difference between low kickback and aggressive chain is minimal. In addition, low kickback chain usually is smoother in the cut. You just can’t bore cut with it.
 
My only opportunity to compare safety or low-kickback chain directly to full chisel chain was a few years ago. I had been cutting up a bunch of walnut and oak for firewood with an older Lowe's purchased Poulan and was getting frustrated with how slow it was going. I brought the chain in to be sharpened and the guy at the shop sharpened it and recommended that I run a full chisel non safety chain. I went back and compared the freshly sharpened safety chain with the new full chisel chain and there was a significant difference in cut speed. Both chains were Oregon chains. Both had the same number of cutters.
 
Dave, few things about a chainsaw are more confusing at first glance than chain selection. Every chain manufacturer has their own special "code" to identify their chain. In truth it's really simple once you understand what it all means and get past the manufactureeeze.

The two main things your concerned with are pitch and gauge.

Pitch is the distance between any three rivets divided by 2 :dizzy:..... The reason pitch is important to you is it tells you weather or not the chain will match your drive sprocket and bar tip sprocket (if you have one). Think of it like this, the chain on a saw is kinda like the chain on a bike, only backwards. The bike has a sprocket with teeth that fit into holes in the chain as it goes around..... a saw chain is just the opposite, it has teeth on the chain that fit into holes on the sprocket to drive the chain around the bar. If the chain is one size and the sprocket is another then it will be impossible for the chain to stay on the sprocket and you will throw chains and cause premature wear on both the chain and sprocket assembly. The reason they measure pitch as the length between any three rivets divided by two is that the spacing between two rivets on the chain isn't the same as the spacing between the next two rivets and so they average it between any three rivets to give you the chains "pitch"..... confused yet??? Don't be, all you need to know is that the pitch of the chain you are buying matches the pitch of the sprockets on your saw.

Gauge is a measurement of the thickness of the driver (that "tooth" that fits into the sprocket) on the chain. The gauge is important because it must match the gauge of your bar groove. The bar groove keeps the chain on the bar and cutting straight. If the gauge of the chain is thicker than the gauge of the bar groove the chain will be to tight and not fit into the bar groove at all... not really a mistake you can make you'll know right away it's wrong. If the chain gauge is thinner than the gauge of the bar groove the chain will be loose in the groove and let the chain rock from side to side causing the saw to "wander" in the cut and cut poorly, or not at all.

There are a few other factors when picking a chain.... cutter shape is probably the next biggest thing to consider, and is where a lot of confusion comes in...... Full chisel, simi-chisel, square chisel, chipper, round ground, square filed, round chisel....... :dizzy: :mad:
It's really not that complicated (or at least it doesn't have to be) really there are only two cutter shapes you need to worry about

Full chisel (also called square chisel by some) has a cutter that when looked at straight on (looking down the length of the bar) has a sharp corner at the top of the cutter and will look like the number 7.

Simi-chisel (also called round chisel by some, also sometimes wrongfully called "chipper chain" by some) has a cutter that when looked at straight on will have a more rounded edge and look like something between the number seven 7 and a question mark ?.

Full chisel chain is the most efficient/aggressive profile and is faster cutting than simi-chisel chain but it dulls more easily... once you blunt the "point" on the cutting edge at the corner (also called the working corner) the chain quits cutting well and it's time to sharpen. That "point is pretty easy to dull if you hit anything but clean wood with it.

Simi-chisel chain is not quite as efficient/aggressive and is a little slower cutting than full chisel chain but because of the rounded edge of the cutter there is no "point" to dull. The whole top corner radius is the "working corner" and is much harder to dull and will go longer between sharpenings.

I'm not gonna go into "chipper chain" much because it's really kinda become obsolete and you likely will never see any but it will have a very rounded cutter profile and look more like a question mark ?.

The next thing to consider (or probably not for you) is cutter sequence.... full comp, skip, or simi skip....... here we go again right :laugh:......

"Full comp" (as in full compliment of cutters) just means the regular chain you already use and has the usual number of cutters..... cutter-driver-cutter-driver-cutter-driver

"Skip chain" just means that every other cutter has been left out..... cutter-driver-driver-cutter-driver-driver-cutter-driver-driver-cutter.

Skip chain is typically used on longer bars in big wood and leaves more space between the cutters to let the chain carry the chips it makes out of the bigger logs without clogging up the cut (thats the simplified version for those who would correct me). The skip chain also has about a third less cutters and puts less strain on the power head which can help a smaller saw to pull a longer bar when necessary.

Simi-skip is just a compromise between skip and full comp and has every third cutter left out of the sequence..... cutter-driver-cutter-driver-driver-cutter-driver-cutter-driver-driver-cutter-driver-cutter-driver-driver.

And thats all there is to it.... clear as mud right?? :laugh:

Anyway it's really not as complicated as it seems. Like I said you really don't need to worry about skip chain yet, all you have to know is your pitch and gauge and then decide if you want full chisel or simi-chisel chain. Hope I didn't cornfuse you too much. :cheers:
 
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