To grease or not to grease

The question is to grease or not to grease sprocket tips? I don't and haven't had any problems. I heard once that the bar oil from the chain will provide adequate lube. Is that correct?

tonka said:

The question is to grease or not to grease sprocket tips? I don't and haven't had any problems. I heard once that the bar oil from the chain will provide adequate lube. Is that correct?

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We actually discussed this yesterday.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=29835

tonka said:

The question is to grease or not to grease sprocket tips? I don't and haven't had any problems. I heard once that the bar oil from the chain will provide adequate lube. Is that correct?

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Thats why sprocket nose bars have a lube hole in them they need to be greased on a regular basis, chain oil has a tendancity to work it's way out and off the chain so it's hard for the oil to work inwards and lube the sprocket.

Mc Bob.

Having sure greased a ton of bar tips in my life, I had started to not, and use a good qty bar oil,,,,,,, To tell you the truth, I had only one tip failure in years,,,, and that was none lube related.

My bad, I stuck the tip and just twisted it out of the wood.

It seems that with the chain at speed, you can hear how it's running, but it dosant seem to run hot or noisy with letting the bar lube do it's trick!

,,,,,, I wont grease on my small bars, but still get a little old-school with longer bars.

Kevin

ozflea said:

Thats why sprocket nose bars have a lube hole in them they need to be greased on a regular basis, chain oil has a tendancity to work it's way out and off the chain so it's hard for the oil to work inwards and lube the sprocket.

Mc Bob.

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No grease holes on Stihl bars, for many years...

Grease hole is there...takes but a few seconds. Why not just go ahead and grease it? I grease mine. I've only had fire related failure.

With centrifical force flinging it off of the tip of the bar.......

I dont see how it could get under the edges of the sprocket and into the rollers.

RaisedByWolves said:

I dont see how it could get under the edges of the sprocket and into the rollers.

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Raisedbywolves

The tackyness draws the bar oil into the center of the sprocket,,,, picture long fibers being drawn with the chain, some of the fibers will fling off, but some will be drawn towards the center, or bearings. As soon as the lube hits a roller-brg it spreeds.

The input and out put bearings of manual gear-boxes are some-what lubed the same way, as the lube level is well below the bearing level,,,,,,, differantals and there axle bearings are lubed the same way.

Kevin

ShoerFast said:

Raisedbywolves
The input and out put bearings of manual gear-boxes are some-what lubed the same way, as the lube level is well below the bearing level,,,,,,, differantals and there axle bearings are lubed the same way.

Kevin

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That's not a very good comparison. Bar sprockets moving at fast RPM's and bigger, slower moving gears in a sealed unit are not alike.

jp hallman said:

That's not a very good comparison. Bar sprockets moving at fast RPM's and bigger, slower moving gears in a sealed unit are not alike.

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jphallman

If I may?
Do you like apples? And if I may?

Do you grease (as in "pack') the axle-bearings of full or semi-floating defferantials?

Kevin

ShoerFast said:

jphallman

If I may?
Do you like apples? And if I may?

Do you grease (as in "pack') the axle-bearings of full or semi-floating defferantials?

Kevin

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What the?
Your previous post was questionable, this one is even better.
You lost me.

Lakeside53 said:

No grease holes on Stihl bars, for many years...

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I have 20" and 25" stihl bars, about 2 years old, both have grease holes.
My take, if they went through the trouble to put the hole in, grease it. I grease mine every fillup
-Ralph

begleytree said:

I have 20" and 25" stihl bars, about 2 years old, both have grease holes.
My take, if they went through the trouble to put the hole in, grease it. I grease mine every fillup
-Ralph

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I have a bunch of 1-5 year old bars in many lengths - no holes... None on the store shelf have holes.

Can you tell if yours are actually Stihl bars or "relabeled as Stihl "bars? - at one point they relabeled another manf. when they couldn't keep up with demand, and those may have been the bars with the holes.

ShoerFast said:

jphallman

If I may?
Do you like apples? And if I may?

Do you grease (as in "pack') the axle-bearings of full or semi-floating defferantials?

Kevin

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I like Apples. I also like Oranges, Pears, Peaches, etc.,etc. Thank's for asking.
Of course you don't "pack" full floating axle bearings. However; full floating axle bearings are awash in 90wt(or better) grease. As the whole works turns the grease migrates to the end of the axle tubes. This isn't the same engineering as chainsaw bar nose sprockets.
Far from it in fact. Now why would the engineers go to the expense of having a hole drilled if they didn't think grease for the bearings was necessary?
I'll grease mine, as I always have. Might even eat an Apple while the saw cools.

DanMan1 said:

What the?
Your previous post was questionable, this one is even better.
You lost me.

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Dan

If hubs on like 3/4 and 1 ton and up, trucks dont run extreemely hot, and the nose-sprockets dont seem to run any hotter with our being greased, something must be getting the lube to them. It seems that it's the tackness of the lube that spirials the full length of the axle and contuniualy fills the hub. As differantials front pinion bearings get some of there lube from sling from the ring-gear, the rear gets it's lube from tackyness from the ring-gears lube as it draws it around.
Manual gear boxes do relie on some of there lube from lubes slinging, but a lot in part that tackness coats againced the cintrifical forces.

It's just one of the qualities of a good lube oil to have a tacktness property that draws it. STP is all about tacky, and adding teflon fibers to lubes add to this as much as they tend to coat metels.

To me, nose-sprockets are just a form of Idler sprockets, and can get there lube by just the tackyness as lube travels bye.

It's been nearly 25 years since I had my saw shop, but even then a Stihl rep has said that nose-sprockets last just as long with just bar lube,,,,,, but I must admitt that he did sell sprockets! And at the time, I sold grease guns!But time is good for a few things, as it seems to hold true that bars dont seem to run hotter with out grease.

There is another con to greaseing sprockets, as it wouldent flush any dirt out as well as a freash supply of clean oil would. How do you like them apples?

Kevin

Stihl actually doesn't have grease holes. They have "Roll-a-Matic" sprockets and drive links that carry plenty of oil to the sprocket. This isn't what we were originally talking about. I believe the question was "Do you grease...?" If the hole's there, grease it.

Lake, honestly couldn't tell now. may have been rebadged as the 25" is a 84dl and should be labeled as 24". Other stihl bars I own have no holes.

like someone else mentioned, if it has a hole, grease it!

-Ralph

I dunno 'bout dat..

If, indeed, the "takiness" of the gear oil in a transmission or differential was instrumental in getting the lube to the bearings and such, it would happen also in a static condition. Get that to happen and you'd have the engine for the elusive perpetual-motion machine. It's not a "climbing" oil, it's a "clinging" oil - it still needs a mechanism to GET it to it's job.

Rather, oil is slung to the bearings or otherwise directed to them (g-forces in turns, simple gravity, oil level high enough to flow naturally, etc.) in dynamic fashion. It's called "splash oiling". In fact, the pinion bearings of a typical hypoid gear axle assemby IS lubricated by way of ring gear oil sling. Note the oil drain-back passage directly under the pinion shaft boss? It ain't there by accident. I've seen cases where the oil sling was sufficient in foce and volume to erode differentail cover gaskets and produce oil leaks from the top of the covers. No shat.

And it's "centrifugal" as in "centrifuge"...

Back to the sprocket nose: I'd be willing to bet that in addition to the primary high-speed chain and rail lubricating oil flow, there is an additional lower-speed "slug" of oil that is dragged along the bottom of the bar groove and seeps into the sprocket bearings - kind of a dual-circuit system. Taken a step futher, were a bar to wear such that the chain's drive link "scoops" bottomed out in the groove, I can imagine we'd see a significant increase in sprocket bearing failures, as this hypothetical slug-circuit would be ejected via normal oil-sling dynamics instead of migrating to it'sin tended destination. I could be wrong, but this is how I visualize the oil flow.

bar grease

i quit greasing my bar tips about 8 years ago i don't notice any difference
i cut down on greasing my husky clutches because i was having problems with crap building up on my clutch springs less trouble now
i grease my clutches maybee twice a year change my sprocket when it starts to show heavy wear and just blow the springs out with air

Our company uses saws a lot. We also stopped greasing the tips several years ago. No difference. In fact, since we stopped, no tip failures. Before we had just a few.
It's a waste of time and doesn't matter one bit.
Does applied grease fly away with centrifugal force?
Does bar oil move down the bar groove and make it's way onto the bearing?
I don't know, I don't know, and I don't care, because tips last as long as the bar in most cases, and greasing is boring.