50 to 1 for old equipment????

I know the mix ratio has been beat to death, BUT. I've got some older equipment that has been run at 32 - 1 (poulans, craftsman, homies @ 16-1, RedMax blower & Ryobi trimmer) and never had a lick of problems. All my new stuff is at 45/50 to 1. So the question is whats gonna happen if I start running them all on the lighter mix. I sure as hell don't want to damage the old stuff just because its a PIA to have a couple of different cans of premix around. If you say that I can run them at 45/50-1 do I have to adjust the carb? Have at it!!

I know i've opened the door for some abuse, but this is a question that I've wanted to ask and I'm not afraid to ask questions when I'm not sure. AND, YES I've used the search function and only got more confused!!!:bang:

Using a ratio that gives the best protection for each piece of equipment would be recommended.

My understanding of this topic is this:

Older machines were produced back in the time where oils were less sophisticated than modern oils.

It isn't that new 2 stroke equipment can cope with less oil in the mix but more a case that the developments in oil mean you can run with 50:1.

I have saws ranging from 1 year old to 43 years old and I run 50:1 in them all.

I only use Stihl oil.

Dan

Older machines were produced back in the time where oils were less sophisticated than modern oils.

It isn't that new 2 stroke equipment can cope with less oil in the mix but more a case that the developments in oil mean you can run with 50:1.

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Yea i'd agree with that, however when i brought my little husky the dealer said that although husky say 50:1 is good he recommends that people run 25:1 (husky/stihl oil) as the current fuel we have downunder isn't that good - liable to have ethanol and possibly be dry.

So.. Everything i run (see below) is at 25:1 never fouled a plug yet, figured it cant hurt...

Dan Forsh said:

My understanding of this topic is this:

Older machines were produced back in the time where oils were less sophisticated than modern oils.

Dan

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Exactly!

When my Mall 12a was new in the 50's they recommended SAE-30 engine oil as a lubricant at 12:1. Can you imagine the smoke from a 12:1 mix?

I have a Lawn Boy 2 stroke that was built when 32:1 was the standard and I presently feed it the same 40/45:1 that my other 2 strokes get. Heck, I may even stretch to 50:1 with the synthetics that I use (Redline & Stihl).

OK - what about carb adjustment? Would any be required or just run as is, assuming it it currently setup correctly?:crazy1:

You know, I was wondering the same thing yesterday. I run 40:1 in all my 2-strokes (trimmers, saws, blowers, etc), but I do have one older Tecumseh TC200 2-stroke engine on a portable tiller. It calls for 24:1, so could I get by with new oil at 40:1?

pbuehning said:

OK - what about carb adjustment? Would any be required or just run as is, assuming it it currently setup correctly?:crazy1:

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I bow to those with knowledge of this, but I don't think your fuel mix ratio will have any bearing on carb settings. Don't forget the carb mixture adjustment is of Air:Fuel.

It's the air ratio to gasoline, not to "Mix". There will be a slight adjustment required for "perfect tune"... but...


I just ran up an old 2100 on 50:1 and I'm not worried.

I'm to the point I run everything at 40:1. If I wasn't milling with my saw, I'd be at 50:1...on all saws.

Mark

oldsaw said:

I'm to the point I run everything at 40:1. If I wasn't milling with my saw, I'd be at 50:1...on all saws.

Mark

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+1

OK, nobody took a shot at you so I will. When I pull apart a saw that has been sitting 20+ years, and run on those old ratios, there is still oil in the cylinder and the darn saws are never piston scuffed. Some of the new saws are junk at 50:1 just after the warranty period. Think about this. Don't the saw manufacturers make more money when their product just makes the warranty and not more. If the saw people wanted you to have a long lasting product they would not restrict the muffler so much that it becomes the favorite thing to modify on this site.
Now oil is better today? BS! It is the same thing pumped out of the ground as 100 years ago (not talking synthetic). It may have a few better additives but that is all. The gasoline is not better either or does someone want to argue that? The emission standards have more to do with 50:1 than any good for the customer, but hey it's your saw. Mike

rupedoggy said:

Now oil is better today? BS! It is the same thing pumped out of the ground as 100 years ago (not talking synthetic). It may have a few better additives but that is all.

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The oil is better. Synthetic or not. Look at the oil rating on the next quart you buy and compare to 10-15 yrs ago. The additives are what make it perform better.

The oil and gasoline is going through a more consisten refining processe than years ago. Saw are also built more presice and require concitency in oils and gas. Saws 20 years ago probaly saw less use than they do today also.

rupedoggy said:

OK, nobody took a shot at you so I will. When I pull apart a saw that has been sitting 20+ years, and run on those old ratios, there is still oil in the cylinder and the darn saws are never piston scuffed. Some of the new saws are junk at 50:1 just after the warranty period. Think about this. Don't the saw manufacturers make more money when their product just makes the warranty and not more. If the saw people wanted you to have a long lasting product they would not restrict the muffler so much that it becomes the favorite thing to modify on this site.
Now oil is better today? BS! It is the same thing pumped out of the ground as 100 years ago (not talking synthetic). It may have a few better additives but that is all. The gasoline is not better either or does someone want to argue that? The emission standards have more to do with 50:1 than any good for the customer, but hey it's your saw. Mike

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Huh? I pull apart "modern" saw with 2000+ hours on them and see no "scuffing"... I can't speak for the other manf. but Stihl was promoting 50:1 long long before EPA rules came into play...

And btw.. it is the "additives" that make the difference...

OK Andy I understand you have to espouse the "Company" line. That is well and good. How about a little test? There is a wood yard not far from here. They run saws constantly, all day. We take two new identical Stihls and run them side by side in the 100 degree heat until one has a problem. One at 32:1 and the other at 50:1. No modifications to the saw and no removal of the limiter caps on the carburetor. If the 50:1 outlasts the 32:1 I will pay for both saws if you will do the opposite. Also if your saw 50:1 gets to 2000 hours, I will give a $1000 bonus if you will do likewise if it can't.
That's a test that can be observed and the results will speak for themselves! Mike

No need to argue over spilled oil!!!


I run all my saws at 32/1.


This is my choice!!!


I trust Andy's judgement to run saws at 50/1..............I just feel better at 32/1!!!


For the little money it costs to go from 50/1 to 32/1 arguing is asinine!!!

rupedoggy said:

OK, nobody took a shot at you so I will. When I pull apart a saw that has been sitting 20+ years, and run on those old ratios, there is still oil in the cylinder and the darn saws are never piston scuffed. Some of the new saws are junk at 50:1 just after the warranty period. Think about this. Don't the saw manufacturers make more money when their product just makes the warranty and not more. If the saw people wanted you to have a long lasting product they would not restrict the muffler so much that it becomes the favorite thing to modify on this site.
Now oil is better today? BS! It is the same thing pumped out of the ground as 100 years ago (not talking synthetic). It may have a few better additives but that is all. The gasoline is not better either or does someone want to argue that? The emission standards have more to do with 50:1 than any good for the customer, but hey it's your saw. Mike

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Wow, all my saws look really nice on the inside, even the old Super XL which has never been run thicker than 40:1 since I've owned it, and most of the past 5 years been at 50:1. Still looks new. Ditto the 066. The 3120 has been run at 40:1 for most milling, and it looks mahvelous.

The old ratios were often for 30 wt motor oil. This new stuff is much better. Even your plain old engine oil is much better than what it was 10 years ago. Pumping it from the ground is just the beginning. I'm coming up on a year of synthetic only though.

Mark

I remember a test one of the motorcycle magazines did about 1980. They used a 250 cc suzuki race bike and tested ratios from 15 to 1 to 50 to 1 ( some inbetween). They started with the higher oil ratios and run a brand new top end on each ratio for several hours of vigorous riding. Each test started with checking horsepower output and at the end they checked horsepower again.The 15 to 1 had the highest output of horsepower at the end of its test trial and if I remember right it was highest at the start.
The 50 to 1 had lost something like 30% of its original horsepower at the end of the test. For kicks or whatever the test group put the 15 to 1 mix in the engine that lost power on 50 to 1 and checked horsepower again and it came back up very significantly. That is why I choose the richer oil mixtures most of the time. Primarily I use 25 to 1. In my earliar years I run 15 or 16 to 1. I had some carbon buildup in my exhaust port with 16 to 1 and found 25 to 1 to burn very clean with proper carb settings and air breather care. I am sure I have been leaningout more on my air fuel mix then what I use to so I wouldn't say if you were going with 16 to 1 you would have to much carbon with proper maintnence. Without proper adjustment and maintnence 50 to 1 will build up carbon likewise. I personally believe 25 to 1 is better in performance and reliability then leaner oil mix ratios and would say most engines,especially those with lots of hours on them will benifit with it.

rupedoggy said:

OK Andy I understand you have to espouse the "Company" line. That is well and good. How about a little test? There is a wood yard not far from here. They run saws constantly, all day. We take two new identical Stihls and run them side by side in the 100 degree heat until one has a problem. One at 32:1 and the other at 50:1. No modifications to the saw and no removal of the limiter caps on the carburetor. If the 50:1 outlasts the 32:1 I will pay for both saws if you will do the opposite. Also if your saw 50:1 gets to 2000 hours, I will give a $1000 bonus if you will do likewise if it can't.
That's a test that can be observed and the results will speak for themselves! Mike

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There's no company line here... I service saws from all over and 50:1 isn't an issue.. If you want to run 32:1 knock yourself out. I run 50:1... the only time go a little richer is when I'm milling - 'cos that' way outside of the design parameters for the saws


as for your "test" - how about if they get to 3000 hours?



How did i get suckered into yet another oil mix thread ????:bang: :bang: :bang: