Aussie076
ArboristSite Lurker
Does anyone use Auxiliary oiler? When milling with Longer bars?
050 051 075 076 Info Thread
- Thread starter JDNicol
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I have been reading but have yet to saw with one. The aux oiler at the tip of the bar gives you better results as the oil goes where it is needed not slung off of the tip.. Probably don't need the auto oiler turned up so high with the aux oiler.
Novice4Rent
ArboristSite Lurker
Is it still around?
I just finished fully restoring a 051 with a few minor porting and carb modifications for power. I built it for a good friend as a large saw for emergency large tree removal after storms. I made the decision to set it up with 3/8 .063 bar/chain because its more locally available compared to 404. This is a warning not to make this mistake. This saw is too powerful to run 3/8 chain. After every single cut the chain required tightening because it stretched to the point the drivers hung out of the bar groove. I warned my friend it needed to be changed to 404 as soon as possible after letting him run it to experience it first hand.
Was it stihl chain May I ask?
Archer, sabre and oregon were all tried and all stretched every single cut
Aussie076
ArboristSite Lurker
Interesting........i have an 076 super in stock condition and I have no problem running 30" and 42" bars with 3/8 chain.
May I ask what mods you did to your saw
Prestretched stihl Would cure most of your problems
I do not have trouble with any of my ported saws running 3/8 stihl
And I won’t tell you about 3/8 LoPro chain made for 100 cc saws.
Lots of little touches-- piston window reshaping, reshaping the intake port, intake block, carb limiter delete, exhaust port reshaping, muffler port matched and widened, stock outlet widened but still retaining the screen, decomp delete, thinner base gasket. Saw had 180 comp after 3 tanks run through it.
On all of my larger saws I use 404 chain because they out perform every thing else. That does not mean 3/8'' is poor but 404 is more practical. The 404 stays sharp longer resulting in more work getting done. I experimented with 3/8'' and concluded it was more work so went back to 404. I do not know whether chisel is better or not because it could be but me and my use says semi chisel is by far more practical. I do not often cut green fresh wood but dry some times dirty Oak and Pine. When I am cutting Pine especially with knots approach a foot or more the chisel goes south very fast. Thanks
Thanks for the warning, but no way would that create a problem running a 3/8 setup if everything was correctly matched -- especially with .063. I run a 36" 3/8 .050 full comp setup on a very healthy 066 flat top with over 200psi that would run rings around that saw. Do I need to periodically adjust the bar, sure. Am I 'stretching' the chain? No. Do chains really 'stretch'? No. Does eventual wear between the rivets, tie straps and drive links make people think chains stretch? Yes. And that actually takes some time after initial break-in use has set (pre-stretched?) those stress points. It can be accelerated by using crap bar oil and running in dirty conditions which will obviously speed up the wear process, but nothing stretches. It just lengthens. Or..., the bar 'shortens'.
Check the adjuster and the mating between the bar and bar mount for problems or anomalies. Make 100% sure the studs are completely threaded into the case and the bolt shoulders aren't extended to the point of being up against the sprocket cover when everything is snugged up or are working loose just enough for the bar to slip.
What bar are you using? Does it have the correct sprocket cover?
I'm putting my money on a chain adjustment problem, not the chain -- certainly not the mods., But that said, it definitely sounds like you covered quite a bit of territory there to build a very cool saw. Pics and vids are always appreciated!
AND Is the Bar & Chain getting "PLENTY" of oil?
Yes everything is correctly matched, brand new archer bar, brand new sprocket, sprocket drum, bearing and brand new chains that I spun up, It slung oil off the bar tip pretty good and uses the oil up at the same rate as fuel, studs are tight in the case.
After chain removal I found the rivet holes stretched in every link. I'm uploading a vid of it running to utube but it will take over a hour to finish. I'll put it up when its finished loading. The saw went home with its new owner yesterday.
After chain removal I found the rivet holes stretched in every link. I'm uploading a vid of it running to utube but it will take over a hour to finish. I'll put it up when its finished loading. The saw went home with its new owner yesterday.
Take notice of the chain before I cut then after. yes I know its pig rich, this was the first tank of fuel run through it.
Nice runner and a good lookin' saw. Thanks for taking the time for the demonstration video.
I'm still sticking with the bar not being able to be tightened enough against the pad for some reason -- or a combination of the bar and chain simply not being a quality enough solution for the application..., or all of the above. No way is that chain 'stretching' that much, and then doing it again when re-tightened, then again when re-tightened again. You'd run out of adjustment range after the third cut if that were the case. That bar is slipping.
FWIW, and it doesn't seem like a big consideration, but the adjuster needs #22 below to act sort of like a brake up against the shaft when the bar is tightened to help keep it from spinning. Not that the adjuster is responsible for keeping the chain tight, but it does assist somewhat and that piece is important for that. It's even referred to as a 'clamp'. If it's missing, the tensioner rod will just spin at will. There are also two sizes of tensioning nuts. The bigger one supersedes the smaller one and is more desirable for obvious reasons. A missing clamp combined with the smaller nut could be possible contributors to the situation.
I'm still sticking with the bar not being able to be tightened enough against the pad for some reason -- or a combination of the bar and chain simply not being a quality enough solution for the application..., or all of the above. No way is that chain 'stretching' that much, and then doing it again when re-tightened, then again when re-tightened again. You'd run out of adjustment range after the third cut if that were the case. That bar is slipping.
FWIW, and it doesn't seem like a big consideration, but the adjuster needs #22 below to act sort of like a brake up against the shaft when the bar is tightened to help keep it from spinning. Not that the adjuster is responsible for keeping the chain tight, but it does assist somewhat and that piece is important for that. It's even referred to as a 'clamp'. If it's missing, the tensioner rod will just spin at will. There are also two sizes of tensioning nuts. The bigger one supersedes the smaller one and is more desirable for obvious reasons. A missing clamp combined with the smaller nut could be possible contributors to the situation.
The nuts are 16mm with large washers behind them, once removed you can feel the elongated rivet holes in the chain when you push and pull on a link. Im leaning towards the case side bar plate being warped allowing a large portion of the bar oil to flow out behind itself instead of being pushed through the oil port in the bar.
Aussie076
ArboristSite Lurker
Great, do you have any close up photos of what you did and any tips......looking to do this with my 076
j-jock
ArboristSite Operative
Love that 051. I have a special place for the 051, because in 1975 when I bought it, it was my first large saw, and it was, and still is, a damn fine saw.
I never ran 3/8ths chain on the 051, but I have run 3/8th full chisel chain on my Husky 480, and my Husky 2100s, with 36 inch bars, and it worked great for me. I don't think I did any more maintenance on the 3/8th chains than I did on the .404 chains I ran on the same saws.
When I was cutting dirty wood, I switched to a .404 pitch semi-chisel, just because that was the chain I had handy.
I don't know if the newer chains are made of cheaper steal, but I still have a bunch of lightly used 3/8th and .404 chains, mostly Oregon, dating from the 80s, and I have never found reason to complain about stretching.
I ended up with a lot of chains and bars, because a buddy of mine was a falling contractor on the west coast of BC, and when a chain got grounded by one of his fallers, he didn't feel that it was worth the time to rebuild, change the damaged links, and repair the chain.
sorry i did not take photos as I went through it, these horizontal cylinders have port timing setup in a manor that adjusting the timing by removing material is not a good idea and would require epoxy filling so the majority of the material removed was from the intake, carb spacer and plates to open them up reshape them so where they meet it is seamless. The muffler inlet required extensive grinding to match the exhaust port, I honestly believe a custom muffler would add a very large increase in power as the inlet throat is under sized. I tried advancing the ignition coil by setting it closer to the flywheel and pushing it left a hair. The first start up it would fire off right and it added some extra grunt and rev up speed but at the expense of hands that hurt for days when the handle was ripped from my fingers on a second hot restart so it went back to the stock position.
Things are sorta quiet around here! I made it through all 77 pages. Too bad the photos JD posted awhile back aren't linked anymore. Seems like it would be helpful to update some of those early posts from pages 1 thru 10 if we can?? Something I didn't see mentioned in this thread was the use of chrome bore p&c sets and alusil/nikasil p&c sets. It is mentioned in a couple other threads but I thought I might add a little here for easy access. Ive added a screenshot directly from the service manual. It touchs on making sure to match the appropriate pistons with cylinders with either the chrome bore or cylinders with alusil/nikasil bores. As the service manual states, "only pistons with size code letters without a circle may be installed in cylinders with hard chromium plated bores. Cylinders that do not have hard chromium plated bores have ,,Sil" cast into the base of the cylinder." This isn't anything new and applies to several models as I believe nikasal coatings werent adopted by Stihl until the late 90's...1998? I have nothing to corroborate that though. It has however been mentioned in earlier pages of this thread and is also mentioned in the service manual to install pistons and cylinders as sets/kits for the best tolerance matches and to avoid issues/confusion with the multiple design changes that occurred with the 1111 series...which is excellent advice! Ive never installed a piston designed for nikasil bores in a chrome bore cylinder so i dont know what kind of damage it would cause. My appreciation to all who have contributed to this thread. I'd thank JD but he hasnt been online since 2015.
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