30 Years of Not Using the Sharpening File Correctly - Doh

[Philbert]

Basic thing to remember is that files are cutting tools. They have teeth with cutting edges. Most are directional.

The file teeth have to be harder than what they are cutting / shaving / scraping, which means that the ones for chainsaw cutters can be brittle, and chip.

If you treat it like a cutting tool, and take care of it’s sharp edges, you will get better results.

Philbert

 

[lukebuz]

The 10* down shouldn't majorly effect cutting, and can arguably just be forgotten about. It's an oregon chain thing. No I don't do it anymore.

If it makes a difference, it was an Oregon chain, and the chain spec's specified the 10* down. Full chisel. I'm just a novice, but that super worked for me.

 

[sean donato]

Yeah oregon is about the only one that has the 10* down. What u was trying to say was it isn't nessisary. I used to be real worried about it. I haven't noticed any real world gains from trying to maintain it, weather free hand or with the grinder. Just seems to add (needlessly imo) complexity when no other manufacturers seem to need it.

 

[Del_]

If I'm not mistaken the top plate of Stihl RS chain also has this same 10° angle.

So the plane of the top plate and the line that the file runs in both have the same 10° tilt.

Makes sense to me that it should be so.

 

[sean donato]

If I'm not mistaken the top plate of Stihl RS chain also has this same 10° angle.

So the plane of the top plate and the line that the file runs in both have the same 10° tilt.

Makes sense to me that it should be so.

No it's just oregon chain.

 

[sean donato]

It's also not all of oregon chains either. Better get yoir glasses on @Del_

 

[GrizG]

I have three Stihls for firewood and trimming trees which I have usually sharpened with a file over the years. Except the results were average, never actually sharp, but the Stihl shop said that was normal for casual users.

Last night I watched a video about sharpening and suddenly realised I had been pushing the file in the wrong direction. Holding the pointed end with my right hand to keep the fingers off the file and pushing it forward...so instead of cutting, the file edges were being flattened. Dang!! No wonder the files went flat so quickly.

The second thing I learned is not to file back and forth: single strokes only in one direction but I'd never been told that.

Feeling really foolish rght now and laughing. Better late than never.

When I read stuff like this I realize how lucky I was as a kid... My father served an apprenticeship and worked as a tool and die maker early in his career. As a result of that I was taught how to use files, taps and dies, vernier calipers, feeler gauges, and myriad other tools at a very young age. Later on, in my late 20s, I worked in Colonial Williamsburg's gunsmith shop and learned about how files wear and to maximize their life and performance use sharp new files on soft things like wood and brass first and as they dull use them on harder things like iron and steel. While there I also discovered the book "A Treatise on Files by Nicholson File Company." From that book I learned more about files and filing, particularly about draw filing. (This book was available on Project Gutenberg and Google Books in the past... haven't looked lately.) From another book, "The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening," I learned the basics of sharpening pretty much any tool which came in handy for my fine woodworking hobby. With that background I did Okay sharpening chains right from the get go. Then I saw a video on The Ironhorse YouTube channel titled "How a chip is formed! East coast sharpening tips!." Once I saw that video my chain sharpening went to a whole other level! This as it provided the chain theory that I was missing to understand how to make a chain perform. In short, there is good information out there beyond what you might find in the directions that come with chain sharpening tools... or even here!

 

[Del_]

It's also not all of oregon chains either. Better get yoir glasses on @Del_

Thanks for the correction!

No file tilt for the Stihl RS chain.

 

[trains]

No it's just oregon chain.

And Husky chain (no idea about their newer x cut), runs 10deg down angle, along with a bit of Carlton, and quite a bit of the chinga chain clones too that copied carlton/ oregan chains.

 

[HansFranz]

Really the main problem was filing both ways back and forth.

I wouldn't worry about that too much. I mean, it's not ideal, and you're not going to accomplish much on the backstroke, but it shouldn't really damage your file, since the file should be a lot harder than the metal you're filing...

I remember my Dad teaching me to use a file when I was a kid, and when I tried to file back and forth, he said, "Don't do that," mainly because the backstroke doesn't accomplish anything and just burnishes the workpiece, more than because it damages the file...

If the file is soft enough that the backstroke flattens the teeth, so will the forward stroke...

 

[sean donato]

And Husky chain (no idea about their newer x cut), runs 10deg down angle, along with a bit of Carlton, and quite a bit of the chinga chain clones too that copied carlton/ oregan chains.

The newer xcut is all square ground I think, so lots of tilt there.
The old husqy chain was made by Oregon, I kinda lump them in as one and the same. No idea on Carlton or China chains.

 

[Philbert]

Pulling the file back could cause some extra wear on the file cutter edges, I guess. My bigger concern would be dragging the hard file back at a slightly different angle, pulling it across the new edge that you are trying create.

Some guys lift their file slightly on the backstroke, and it ‘looks’ like they are dragging it back in contact with the tooth. It does not have to be an exaggerated motion to hold it clear on the return, but it should be deliberate.

Philbert

 

[5backacres]

Files like handsaws cut on the forward stroke. My grandfather (lived to 101) taught me to let the saw do the work and not rush it. I use the stihl 2 in 1 and find as with any tool that's got a sharp edge frequent light touch-ups work better than trying to rework a rounded over cutting edge. I touch up the chipper blades frequently and find like saw chain they last longer with touch-ups. The 2 in 1 isn't as good as a grind but the advantage of taking down the rakers is so time saving.
Lot's of kids don't ever get the everyday tool exposure and hence don't know which end of the screw driver to use. frequently they just buy new or hire someone to fix it. Currently young folks aren't using the "older folks/ parents" experience and think everything can be found on the internet!
M y grandfathers advise 'learn to fix tthings from everyone you come in contact with fix what you can, but if you don't have the knowlege higher someone to fix it. I was lucky enough to learn from Father- plumbing/heating/. grandfathers farming/construction electrical. and common sense!

 

[PV Hiker]

Came across this on the Stihl page that might help someone.

Brochure: Sharpening a STIHL saw chain​

All Languages.
https://www.stihl.com/sharpening-brochure.aspx#r=sidebar
English version.
https://static.stihl.com/security_data_sheet/downloads/Sharpening-STIHL-Saw-Chains.pdf

 

[5backacres]

Has anyone tried etching files to restore the bite on the files ? I wouldn't do it for the round saw chain files but the 10, 12 inch flat mill and bastard Files are getting expensive to replace. I dulled some flat files leveling bar rails and then bought a hardned file from Switzerland to do touch up rails....yes the bar rils got hot tempered.

 

[Philbert]

Can’t find the file you want? These videos show you how to make your own (not complete, but enough to get the idea).





Philbert

 

[GrizG]

Has anyone tried etching files to restore the bite on the files ? I wouldn't do it for the round saw chain files but the 10, 12 inch flat mill and bastard Files are getting expensive to replace. I dulled some flat files leveling bar rails and then bought a hardned file from Switzerland to do touch up rails....yes the bar rils got hot tempered.

I've not done the etching thing but I have found that sometimes using abrasives makes sense... like when dealing with hardened metals. I've got various grinders (standard speed, slow speed, horizontal water) that have served me well. That said, I've had no problem draw filing Stihl induction-hardened bars with cheap Stanley single cut mill files. I haven't felt the need to tap into my Nicholson files for such utility work. I check the bars every time I sharpen chains so I'm not removing much of a burr... On the other hand, if the bars were neglected and need a lot of "fixing" I'd grind them...

 

[Philbert]

I have heard of sharpening files with acid for over 40 years. There are many Internet posts that swear by it (also a lot of related posts about an open container of acid causing tools on the other side of the shop to rust!!!).

I must admit being skeptical that the acid would only eat the flat sides of the file teeth, but not erode the fine cutting edges.

Tried it once with phosphoric acid (recommended at the time): certainly got ‘cleaner’ files, but not sure if they were objectively ‘sharper’.

That said, Save Edge brand tools used to accept their chainsaw files for resharpening (I have no information on their process).

Several Internet posts also mention Boggs Tool, in California, that claims to use abrasive under steam pressure to wear away the flat sides of the teeth, sharpening the cutters, similar to sharpening chainsaw teeth (except from the top side).

I don’t know if they do chainsaw specialty files (round, double bevel chisel bit, etc.).

Maybe someone has used them or can check.

Philbert

 

[sean donato]

Save edge has discontinued their chainsaw file line, and I have found no information about the file sharpening service anymore. I was quite disappointed when I found this out. They are my favorite files next to pferd.

 

[purdyite]

I know that guy.

He has the paper to show that he is a engineer.

Just having that paper document is what makes him an engineer.

If he makes a mistake he issues a ECO. (Engineering Change Order)

I think he is currently designing Electric Vehicles for Joe.

hey...everybody is stupid, just on different stuff!

I worked as an engineer for 35 years. Didn't say I WAS one.