395xp, Cannon Superbar…length and pitch debate

[ItsPhil]

Hello all,

I will be new to milling, and not much of an expert on chainsaws/2-stroke in general. I am paranoid about messing up my saw, although I do understand that milling is comparatively hard on it. I’m not afraid of the need to have it rebuilt at some point; I just don’t want to completely fry it.

I have a new 395xp, and have ordered a 48” Granberg mill. Looking to order a Superbar, but need to decide on the below.

I do plan to run accessory oiler, Granberg ripping chain, and I settled on 0.63 as people say it flows oil better.

My issues:

1. I’d like to go with a 42” bar, but if a 36” is that much better for the health of the powerhead, I’m open to that. Would love to hear thoughts and experience.

2. 3/8 vs .404…I care most about treating the engine as well as I can, so that should steer me toward 3/8, right? Seems like people universally say it takes less power to pull it than .404. Would love to hear insight on this too.

Thanks very much!

 

[BobL]

1: 36v42
This will make minimal difference for a saw like a 395

2. 3/8 vs .404
404 has marginal difference in kerf width to standard 3/8. The 404 has slightly bigger teeth but 3/8 had more of them per unit length of chain so its wings and roundabouts.

 

[ItsPhil]

1: 36v42
This will make minimal difference for a saw like a 395

2. 3/8 vs .404
404 has marginal difference in kerf width to standard 3/8. The 404 has slightly bigger teeth but 3/8 had more of them per unit length of chain so its wings and roundabouts.

So like with pretty much everything else I do I reckon I’m overthinking both things?

 

[Woodslasher]

42 will give you more cut width on the mill, 3/8 or .404 is a matter of preference and which would be more easily acquired near you.

 

[LuDookie]

As far as treating the saw right, just make sure everything remains as cool and lubricated as possible. Rich fuel/air and fuel/oil mixture, plenty of oil on the bar, let the engine cool down on idle from time to time, keep a sharp chain, and try your best to not run the engine out of gas while in the middle of long run times all the time.

I don’t do a lot of milling but use a 395 with long bars for some big trees and stumps. I try not to run the holy hell out of it, but they are tough saws regardless.

 

[ItsPhil]

As far as treating the saw right, just make sure everything remains as cool and lubricated as possible. Rich fuel/air and fuel/oil mixture, plenty of oil on the bar, let the engine cool down on idle from time to time, keep a sharp chain, and try your best to not run the engine out of gas while in the middle of long run times all the time.

I don’t do a lot of milling but use a 395 with long bars for some big trees and stumps. I try not to run the holy hell out of it, but they are tough saws regardless.

I know this is a stupid question, but how hot should the top of the saw directly below the handle (on the orange plastic) be to the touch when you’re bucking hardwood and it’s approximately 400°F outside? It’s normal for that to be too hot to comfortably touch, right?

 

[LuDookie]

I know this is a stupid question, but how hot should the top of the saw directly below the handle (on the orange plastic) be to the touch when you’re bucking hardwood and it’s approximately 400°F outside? It’s normal for that to be too hot to comfortably touch, right?

On my 395 it gets pretty hot up there, even compared to some of my other saws. I tune mine to about 12,200 rpm and it stays in good shape. From what I read, The 395 is good at throwing heat vs soaking it all up in the crankcase. That’s why it’s usually the saw suggested for nasty work like stumping, running long bars, and milling. That would be a good explanation for all the heat there on the plastic, but I haven’t given it much thought since I used that saw heavily and it still does really good. Just use common sense and give it a rest from time to time at idle and make sure all the tuning is good.

 

[ItsPhil]

On my 395 it gets pretty hot up there, even compared to some of my other saws. I tune mine to about 12,200 rpm and it stays in good shape. From what I read, The 395 is good at throwing heat vs soaking it all up in the crankcase. That’s why it’s usually the saw suggested for nasty work like stumping, running long bars, and milling. That would be a good explanation for all the heat there on the plastic, but I haven’t given it much thought since I used that saw heavily and it still does really good. Just use common sense and give it a rest from time to time at idle and make sure all the tuning is good.

Thanks for that!

 

[gnef]

the 395 can handle longer bars than what you are considering, so you may want to consider getting one longer bar and one shorter bar, especially if you might see wider diameter trees every now and then. With a 48" mill, you could get a 56" bar to max out the width of cut, and then also get a 36" or 42" for the majority of your milling.

I have a 661 that I use with a 56" bar and mill (I also have a 36" bar and mill setup for smaller diameter logs). I personally have stuck with 3/8", primarily due to cost - I now buy chain by the spool so that I can break and spin up my own loops, and I keep 6 sets of chains for each milling setup. .404 chain is quite a bit more expensive, and I personally wouldn't realize any significant advantages with my setup - if I went up to an 881, then I would definitely have a separate .404 set. Technically .404 should stay sharp longer, and the chain should last longer due to its size and cutter length, but I have personally not been in a situation where I felt I needed .404.

have fun!

 

[Lightning Performance]

Get a bar to max out your mill in most cases and some shorter ones. I find my 3/8 to be a bit faster in the 36" and under setups but the 28" 404 does have it's uses. The 40, 41, 42 bars seems to be the most used in my stable for stuff in hardwoods between the 90cc and 120cc powerheads running 3/8 or 404. After the 60" goes on the four foot or five foot mill your mostly running the bigger saw unless it's pine or basswood under 45". Dry ash went well last month running 3/8 050 chain but it needed to be dialed in on the 36" bar with full comp chisel. The ported 660 went fast with 36" 8pin once the chain was right. It was hellish straight off the reel with a 7 pin but had to try.

 

[ItsPhil]

Get a bar to max out your mill in most cases and some shorter ones. I find my 3/8 to be a bit faster in the 36" and under setups but the 28" 404 does have it's uses. The 40, 41, 42 bars seems to be the most used in my stable for stuff in hardwoods between the 90cc and 120cc powerheads running 3/8 or 404. After the 60" goes on the four foot or five foot mill your mostly running the bigger saw unless it's pine or basswood under 45". Dry ash went well last month running 3/8 050 chain but it needed to be dialed in on the 36" bar with full comp chisel. The ported 660 went fast with 36" 8pin once the chain was right. It was hellish straight off the reel with a 7 pin but had to try.

I had planned to stay at or below 42” bar just bc I read a bunch of places that 42” is about as much as 395xp should run. I do have a couple logs that I’d like to do that could use 48” bar, but that seems like it would be brutal on the saw (oak).

I got the edging mill too so figured with a 36” bar I could edge it down to 28” or whatever I can then mill with 36” bar.

I don’t actually have a need for giant slabs, although it would be nice for sure to have some…most of this stuff will get ripped/resawed down later to be used as stock for regular woodworking.

I’m sure next thing though is a dedicated saw just for edging…42” on the 395xp with a decent shorter setup on edging mill for trimming down to 36” or narrower seems like it could be decently efficient….

 

[Lightning Performance]

I had planned to stay at or below 42” bar just bc I read a bunch of places that 42” is about as much as 395xp should run. I do have a couple logs that I’d like to do that could use 48” bar, but that seems like it would be brutal on the saw (oak).

I got the edging mill too so figured with a 36” bar I could edge it down to 28” or whatever I can then mill with 36” bar.

I don’t actually have a need for giant slabs, although it would be nice for sure to have some…most of this stuff will get ripped/resawed down later to be used as stock for regular woodworking.

I’m sure next thing though is a dedicated saw just for edging…42” on the 395xp with a decent shorter setup on edging mill for trimming down to 36” or narrower seems like it could be decently efficient….

395 will run a 50" so no worries.

Beam cuts can be done working a small saw or something in the middle running a 16" bar or as little as needed to clear the sprocket nose. Ripping vertically goes much faster if you approach the work at an angle. Keep your pitch the same so you only need to maintain one type of chain. 050 RS Stihl chain is the toughest 050 but not always needed. I mill with several types but not Raisman, Archer and few others that won't make the grade here again. They won't stop stretching in oak slabs over two feet wide running 3/8" 063. Go with a 42" Oregon or better bar like a GB, love mine with a roller, with an 063 gauge. If you run the 050 you'll be chasing it every cut without RS or Stihl chain. Some people will continue a cut with loose chain I won't. This is where the rubber meets the road. Carlton chain does well on the 40 regular mount S2 GB roller or the bigger mount 41ES. Oregon 91dl 28" 050 loops on a standard ES get a lot of use around here ripping, felling and bucking. The longer 36+ bars tend to stay on the mill with 063 gauge or in hardwood stumps. A 32" Sugi lw in 3/8" 063 handles larger tasks when needed. Both Cannons here are 063 in 60" or 36". One early one and one late model. Three rivet vs single rivet. They cut about the same regardless of pitch.

Full skip sucks to mill with.
Semi chisel milling chains are too slow.
Custom sequences are much better.
my 2ct

 

[centermin]

Hello,
I have a big problem and that is the ring that covers the rotating thing on the chainsaw does not fit anymore. Should I be "forcing it" in or what do you think?
I'd appreciate any and all help you may have,
Thank you!

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

I had planned to stay at or below 42” bar just bc I read a bunch of places that 42” is about as much as 395xp should run. I do have a couple logs that I’d like to do that could use 48” bar, but that seems like it would be brutal on the saw (oak).

Be no problem with 48-50" bar or bigger for the occasional big log. 42" is the standard most useful bar and is the largest size bar commonly made at a decent price before you get into the considerably more expensive big bars. I freehand trim off protruding bits to keep my 42" bar able to mill 36" slabs. Keep a 72" in reserve I never need, but our trees don't grow that big in south Texas. You're likely to mill very few logs with consistent width bigger than 36" so that you'd need to use the edging mill to trim them. When you do, a small saw with lo pro would do the job fine. Ought to have a look at the lo pro packages from www.chainsawbars.co.uk. Hands down one of the best milling supply places in the world. I order all my lo pro setups from them because the US is in the Dark Ages when it comes to lo pro and all its advantages in smaller log milling, and there's almost no lo pro gear available in the US. People are running 36" lo pro bars on 661's all the time in the UK and Europe, so you could even run one on the 395, but I'd run normal 3/8" chain on it and lo pro on a 60-80cc dedicated edging and resaw setup (you'll waste less wood resawing too). I do a lot of resawing for woodworking and lo pro was a big breakthrough in that regard for me. I work a lot with mesquite, one of the hardest woods in the US, and a narrower kerf is invaluable in cutting extreme hardwoods. If you don't want to get a bandsaw, lo pro is the woodworker's best friend. I was prepared to see a lot of chain stretch which is the conventional wisdom about why lo pro isn't good for anything but small bars, but actually saw less than my 3/8 or .404 chains out of the box. There's so little resistance there's just not much force on the chain stretching it. Unbelievably smooth bandsaw like cuts too. If I was just a slabber and not a woodworker I might not have ever bothered with it and kept things simple with one pitch of chain, but it's opened up the world of resawing for me.
I've experimented with about every chain out there from full comp to full skip to hyper skip to custom grinds, and my last experience milling a rock hard consistently 32-36" white oak with my 880 taught me the thing that matters most is sharp chain not what type it is. I was looking for some magic bullet in chain design and the magic bullet is becoming an expert in sharpening and keeping the chains touched up regularly, whatever type you choose. I thought Archer wasn't much good at first but have been fine with it since I got my sharpening skills more dialed in. Chains that keep an edge better in ideal conditions still dull just as easily when you hit dirt hidden in bark. As far as numbers of teeth, have gotten very smooth results winching through the cut with Oregon hyperskip even. I like sharpening less teeth. I'm frankly amazed by how many people are stuck on full comp for milling because it's a hell of a lot more teeth to sharpen, requires more power, and the improvement in finish is negligible if you're doing things right. I only like full comp in lo pro. In an ideal world I would probably custom grind all my .404 chains to grind off alternating tooth pairs from full comp chain, resulting in something between full skip and hyperskip.

 

[ItsPhil]

These replies are brilliant and invaluable to me thank you all so much