A well sharpened chain?

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I agree it's taking a long time, but I'm guessing you only cut clean soft wood if it only takes 5 seconds per cutter.

What snaps back at you? The person who paid you to sharpen?
What snaps back at you Chip, that you sharpen the chains but it doesnt hold water.
You fancy getting the word your job dont hold the water now? The chains are sharp but only for a couple of minutes.
Well good luck getting a life doing a poor job mate, because if you do - someone will sertainly notice.
I do not do a poor job, I do a quality job - I do not know how to do it otherwise.
 

Hermio

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While those are great for learning, they do not adjust the raker depth according to the individual cutter, but rather to an average of two cutters at a fixed depth. A progressive raker guide adjusts the raker to the depth of each individual cutter and rather than doing it at a fixed depth it increases the depth as the cutter gets shorter(both in height and length). What's needed for setting rakers is an angle in relation to the cutter, not a set depth.
Might be true, but if the cutters wear evenly, it is a distinction that makes no difference. I have found that when I sharpen with the Pferd system, my cutting speed is faster than a brand-new chain out of the box. I use Stihl RS exclusively now, after having tried a few others (and after the excellent Project Farm test videos). My only problem is that I seem to favor one side over the other, so I sometimes get a curving cut after 5-10 hand sharpenings. When that happens, I take it to a shop to have it trued up. My Ace Hardware store charges $8.
 

chipper1

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Might be true, but if the cutters wear evenly, it is a distinction that makes no difference. I have found that when I sharpen with the Pferd system, my cutting speed is faster than a brand-new chain out of the box. I use Stihl RS exclusively now, after having tried a few others (and after the excellent Project Farm test videos). My only problem is that I seem to favor one side over the other, so I sometimes get a curving cut after 5-10 hand sharpenings. When that happens, I take it to a shop to have it trued up. My Ace Hardware store charges $8.
LOL, so you say it makes no difference, but you'r chains cut crooked :laugh:.
Maybe you should just try what I'm saying.
I'd watch the video you're talking about if you care to post it.
 

chipper1

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What snaps back at you Chip, that you sharpen the chains but it doesnt hold water.
You fancy getting the word your job dont hold the water now? The chains are sharp but only for a couple of minutes.
Well good luck getting a life doing a poor job mate, because if you do - someone will sertainly notice.
I do not do a poor job, I do a quality job - I do not know how to do it otherwise.
Okay that's what I thought you meant, just wasn't sure if I was missing something.
 

Hermio

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LOL, so you say it makes no difference, but you'r chains cut crooked :laugh:.
Maybe you should just try what I'm saying.
I'd watch the video you're talking about if you care to post it.
The video I am talking about was on this forum. And if I file a bit unevenly because of my handedness, that is not a flaw with the toll, it is a flaw with me. Like anything else, technique still matters. And I doubt that the unevenness affects the raker height materially.
 

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And so this particular chain is sharpened once a year, between three owners.
And if it dulls quicker than average, I will not hear about it, I will not hear about that chain again - ever.
And when I meet the guy - perhaps at the national constitution day, he will be looking some other way.
So yes, the stakes are a bit higher when you do something for money and for someone else than yourself.
 

Hermio

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I agree it's taking a long time, but I'm guessing you only cut clean soft wood if it only takes 5 seconds per cutter.

What snaps back at you? The person who paid you to sharpen?
You guess wrong on both assumptions. We do not even have soft wood growing here in Ohio naturally. Mostly I cut various species of oak and hickory, and the occasional walnut, cherry, beech and locust. And it is not clean either. For my own safety, I drag most of my timber into a field where I have better footing and less chance of tripping on something when I cut or lift the rounds. That means at least one side of the log gets muddy. I try to cut from the clean side when possible, so most of the mud gets thrown off with the bark or outer layer of wood. I usually sharpen every 2nd or 3rd tank of fuel, which means close to a cord between sharpenings. I find that 3-5 strokes with the Pferd system per tooth gets me to a sharper edge and faster cutting than a brand-new chain. What I need to learn to do better is file a couple more strokes on my weaker direction to keep cutting straight. Still, it cuts pretty straight for 5-10 hand sharpenings. I can live with that. Typical cutting time is under 5 seconds through 12 inch seasoned white oak and about 10 seconds for 18" seasoned red oak. The saw is a Stihl MS 500i.
 

chipper1

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Th

The video I am talking about was on this forum. And if I file a bit unevenly because of my handedness, that is not a flaw with the toll, it is a flaw with me. Like anything else, technique still matters. And I doubt that the unevenness affects the raker height materially.
Oh, that one lol. I've posted thousands of videos on this forum, I have no idea which one you are referring too.
If it doesn't effect anything then why do you have to have your chains tried up to cut straight?
Yes I also have cutters that are not equal length to the rest, but my chains still cut straight and I don't have to pay someone to true them up.
 

chipper1

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You guess wrong on both assumptions. We do not even have soft wood growing here in Ohio naturally. Mostly I cut various species of oak and hickory, and the occasional walnut, cherry, beech and locust. And it is not clean either. For my own safety, I drag most of my timber into a field where I have better footing and less chance of tripping on something when I cut or lift the rounds. That means at least one side of the log gets muddy. I try to cut from the clean side when possible, so most of the mud gets thrown off with the bark or outer layer of wood. I usually sharpen every 2nd or 3rd tank of fuel, which means close to a cord between sharpenings. I find that 3-5 strokes with the Pferd system per tooth gets me to a sharper edge and faster cutting than a brand-new chain. What I need to learn to do better is file a couple more strokes on my weaker direction to keep cutting straight. Still, it cuts pretty straight for 5-10 hand sharpenings. I can live with that. Typical cutting time is under 5 seconds through 12 inch seasoned white oak and about 10 seconds for 18" seasoned red oak. The saw is a Stihl MS 500i.
Missed this post.
So 5 seconds is now 3 to 5 strokes, that's more like it, but I find mine need much more than that.
I'm in Ohio often, great place to be.
 

Hermio

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Oh, that one lol. I've posted thousands of videos on this forum, I have no idea which one you are referring too.
If it doesn't effect anything then why do you have to have your chains tried up to cut straight?
Yes I also have cutters that are not equal length to the rest, but my chains still cut straight and I don't have to pay someone to true them up.
I have to say, you kind of missed the point. As long as you file evenly on both sides, it will provide equal raker height. Yes, I tend to put more pressure on one side than the other. I am sure I would end up doing the same freehand filing. That is where I need some practice, or I need a couple more strokes on the awkward side. Congratulations to you on your skill if you always end up cutting straight. But, frankly, I don't think it is cost effective to spend 15-30 minutes sharpening a chain, when you could use that time to be cutting. I spend less than 10 minutes sharpening per cord cut into firewood. As I say, it takes me 5 minutes to sharpen, and I sharpen every 2nd or 3rd tankful, depending on the condition of the chain. It takes me 2-3 tanks to cut a cord, at 35 minutes per tankful, depending on the size and species of the wood. (Small limbs take longer per cord, as it takes more cuts.) And I only spend the 8 bucks after a number of sharpenings. I wait until I have several chains in need of truing so I don't waste time on multiple trips. BTW, the word you are looking for is "affect", not "effect". Completely different meanings.
 

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Missed this post.
So 5 seconds is now 3 to 5 strokes, that's more like it, but I find mine need much more than that.
I'm in Ohio often, great place to be.
Well, if I hit a rock or a wire fence, I need much more than 3-5 strokes. :) But, at least with a fresh file, I get a sharp edge in 3-5 strokes normally. Any more than that just removes usable tooth metal. How do I judge sharpness? Ideally, if you drag the back of a fingernail across the tooth, it should easily slice a visible sliver off. Hard pressure is not advised. :)
 

chipper1

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I have to say, you kind of missed the point. As long as you file evenly on both sides, it will provide equal raker height. Yes, I tend to put more pressure on one side than the other. I am sure I would end up doing the same freehand filing. That is where I need some practice, or I need a couple more strokes on the awkward side. Congratulations to you on your skill if you always end up cutting straight. But, frankly, I don't think it is cost effective to spend 15-30 minutes sharpening a chain, when you could use that time to be cutting. I spend less than 10 minutes sharpening per cord cut into firewood. As I say, it takes me 5 minutes to sharpen, and I sharpen every 2nd or 3rd tankful, depending on the condition of the chain. It takes me 2-3 tanks to cut a cord, at 35 minutes per tankful, depending on the size and species of the wood. (Small limbs take longer per cord, as it takes more cuts.) And I only spend the 8 bucks after a number of sharpenings. I wait until I have several chains in need of truing so I don't waste time on multiple trips. BTW, the word you are looking for is "affect", not "effect". Completely different meanings.
No, you missed the point, if you use a progressive raker gauge it won't matter if you file them perfectly or not, it has nothing to do with skill, just the ability to listen to those who've been willing to share info that I didn't know.
 

serdie

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No, you missed the point, if you use a progressive raker gauge it won't matter if you file them perfectly or not, it has nothing to do with skill, just the ability to listen to those who've been willing to share info that I didn't know.
As far as one handedness just turn the damn thing around and you can use the same hand with no I’ll effects
 

chipper1

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Yeah my bad sorry. Most of know how to sharpen our saws to suit ourselves. I use a Dremel now because of arthritis in my hands. I use diamond burrs with very light pressure to not burn em.
Forgiven.
I agree most have some idea how to file/grind a chain, but their chains are not sharpened properly and they do not cut well.
That works, I have a 12 volt stihl portable grinder/dremel I keep in my trucks saw box, I use it for grinding burrs off drive links when a chain gets tossed. The funny thing is I haven't used it for many yrs on one of my chains, its always on someone else's, beats filing them off. I also have another small dremel with the diamond cutters, I've never used it though, I bought it cheap and figured someone could use it after I messed with it. I've had or have many grinders and filing systems and now have everything I need want other than a new simington, but my older ones work fine, so I have no real need for the dremel. I have seen guys get great results with them
 

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No, you missed the point, if you use a progressive raker gauge it won't matter if you file them perfectly or not, it has nothing to do with skill, just the ability to listen to those who've been willing to share info that I didn't know.
I don't really see how a progressive gauge keeps the saw cutting straight. Yes, it keeps the same cutting angle, but if all the left-hand cutters are a different length from the right hand cutters, the saw will cut curved. I understand that the idea of a progressive gauge is to increase the cutting depth so the cutting angle is the same as the tooth gets shorter, and supposedly that increases cutting speed. I will concede that it is probably true. But I have noticed that my cutting speed increases as the chain wears anyway, probably because the kerf is narrower, allowing a higher chain speed. In any case, my cutting speed is fast enough for me, and I prefer to spend less time sharpening and more time cutting.
 

chipper1

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I don't really see how a progressive gauge keeps the saw cutting straight. Yes, it keeps the same cutting angle, but if all the left-hand cutters are a different length from the right hand cutters, the saw will cut curved. I understand that the idea of a progressive gauge is to increase the cutting depth so the cutting angle is the same as the tooth gets shorter, and supposedly that increases cutting speed. I will concede that it is probably true. But I have noticed that my cutting speed increases as the chain wears anyway, probably because the kerf is narrower, allowing a higher chain speed. In any case, my cutting speed is fast enough for me, and I prefer to spend less time sharpening and more time cutting.

If the raker is adjusted to the corresponding cutter then the chain will run true, It's not just about making the chain cut faster, it will also be smoother. Maybe you should try it, rather than arguing about it when you have no experience on a topic. You actually sound like a smart individual, but sometimes that can be a downfall. I've been humbled many times trying something I didn't think was going to work that was told to me by someone with less experience than me on the topic, sometimes people with no/little experience are not caught up in the "how things are supposed to work or be" of it all. That being said, other times someone else has tried our way and knows what works best so they offer up a little tip and we have the opportunity to learn.
Let it be know, I think the perferd/stihl 2 in 1 is a great tool, but as you've said after a bit the chain still needs to be trued up. Why is that, if it's working so well? Rather than taking it in next time, spend your money on a progressive raker guide and give it a try. They are not too much at the dealer, that is if you're not afraid to walk into a husky dealer :p . Stihl has some too, but they are a bit different and are not available in our market(I had mine shipped from Europe), and they are quite a bit more aggressive even using the hardwood setting.
Here's the one I like for 3/8 chain. You get the same settings as the one on the roller guide, but since you have the 2-1 it will hold your file up on the cutter nicely and there is really no need for the roller guide in that case.



Screen Shot 2022-01-27 at 12.41.57 PM.png
 

Hermio

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If the raker is adjusted to the corresponding cutter then the chain will run true, It's not just about making the chain cut faster, it will also be smoother. Maybe you should try it, rather than arguing about it when you have no experience on a topic. You actually sound like a smart individual, but sometimes that can be a downfall. I've been humbled many times trying something I didn't think was going to work that was told to me by someone with less experience than me on the topic, sometimes people with no/little experience are not caught up in the "how things are supposed to work or be" of it all. That being said, other times someone else has tried our way and knows what works best so they offer up a little tip and we have the opportunity to learn.
Let it be know, I think the perferd/stihl 2 in 1 is a great tool, but as you've said after a bit the chain still needs to be trued up. Why is that, if it's working so well? Rather than taking it in next time, spend your money on a progressive raker guide and give it a try. They are not too much at the dealer, that is if you're not afraid to walk into a husky dealer :p . Stihl has some too, but they are a bit different and are not available in our market(I had mine shipped from Europe), and they are quite a bit more aggressive even using the hardwood setting.
Here's the one I like for 3/8 chain. You get the same settings as the one on the roller guide, but since you have the 2-1 it will hold your file up on the cutter nicely and there is really no need for the roller guide in that case.



View attachment 959869
Not quite sure I understand. Are you saying use the above tool and the Pferd 2 in one together? I am having a hard time visualizing how that would work. BTW, no Husky dealers here, except TSC and maybe Lowe's. Not sure if they have one. They don't sell any pro-grade saws. But, to answer your question on how the Pferd system can still result in a curved cut, the answer is simple. I tend to do a better job of applying pressure on the right hand cutters than the left. That would be a problem with any hand filing system that does not have an adjustable file stop, such as the Granberg file-n-joint does. I used the Granberg before and it does a great job, but it took maybe 15-20 minutes to set it up and get the job done. Freehand filing was faster but I had to still file the rakers separately. That made it about a 10 minute job. I have it down to 5 or less with the Pferd system. But proper use of the Pferd system, just as any other hand filing method, requires some skill, and I am endeavoring to improve mine.
 

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Not quite sure I understand. Are you saying use the above tool and the Pferd 2 in one together? I am having a hard time visualizing how that would work. BTW, no Husky dealers here, except TSC and maybe Lowe's. Not sure if they have one. They don't sell any pro-grade saws. But, to answer your question on how the Pferd system can still result in a curved cut, the answer is simple. I tend to do a better job of applying pressure on the right hand cutters than the left. That would be a problem with any hand filing system that does not have an adjustable file stop, such as the Granberg file-n-joint does. I used the Granberg before and it does a great job, but it took maybe 15-20 minutes to set it up and get the job done. Freehand filing was faster but I had to still file the rakers separately. That made it about a 10 minute job. I have it down to 5 or less with the Pferd system. But proper use of the Pferd system, just as any other hand filing method, requires some skill, and I am endeavoring to improve mine.
What Bret is saying, is that you can file the left cutters down to nothing and leave the right cutters new and as long as each raker is set with a progressive guide, it will cut straight
 
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