Another *)#&(^! question about sharpening, filing, grinding, whatever you call it!

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livemusic

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So, I thought I had it figured out. Sharpening a saw. Nope. That lasted a few sessions and then, whammo, doing the same thing I've been doing with enjoyable results (multiple chains/saws), it turned on me. What?!!! I don't want to explain what happened, other threads are for that. I'm just ready to hire somebody. Or buy some kind of gizmo that is foolproof, lol, filing teeth and rakers. I've never been great at filing.

Question is... is there anyone I could send a bunch of chains to who can really sharpen? I don't know anyone around here who does it, seems a dying art. What about the online services with these ten grand sharpener machines, do they provide a quality result?

EDIT: I already have the Stihl 2-in-1, Dremel, hand files, and the Husky roller gizmo. Really seek a service/individual.
 
livemusic said:
So, I thought I had it figured out. Sharpening a saw. Nope. That lasted a few sessions and then, whammo, doing the same thing I've been doing with enjoyable results (multiple chains/saws), it turned on me. What?!!! I don't want to explain what happened, other threads are for that. I'm just ready to hire somebody. Or buy some kind of gizmo that is foolproof, lol, filing teeth and rakers. I've never been great at filing.

Question is... is there anyone I could send a bunch of chains to who can really sharpen? I don't know anyone around here who does it, seems a dying art. What about the online services with these ten grand sharpener machines, do they provide a quality result?
Click to expand...

Get one of the pferd 2 in 1 file guides. They do a good job and they are fast. It's what I use most of the time.
 
livemusic said:
Question is... is there anyone I could send a bunch of chains to who can really sharpen? I don't know anyone around here who does it, seems a dying art. What about the online services with these ten grand sharpener machines, do they provide a quality result?
Click to expand...
I think the Frazen machines are like 40 thousand. You also need to have a human setting it up. Send a few off to the razzor sharp guy. I would view that sort of service as making the whole chain uniform again and they as you sharpen it it will drift from ideal like it sounds you are at now.

As for the quality of razzorsharp, I don't think they lived up to the hype, I got 18 seconds vs 19 seconds with the new chain doing better. they were very uniform and not excessivelly shortened. Of course your results may vary. Mine were not de burred, they claim deburred if necessary.

It is less expensive to buy a 6 pack of Upstart chain off ebay or walmart.com if you use one of the stock loops they deal in.

For the bumper drive link chains when new the depth gauge is just a bit higher than the bumper on the drive link. I doubt any place will take the depth gauge down and then somehow take the bumper drive link down a bit more.

Have you got a John Deere dealership nearby. They are becoming mega storefronts under one name and owner over time. I go to one that has a $7 per loop sign or at least did last year. I would try something like this maybe they have a mechanized machine at one location they send to. You want to spend like $30 on 3 loops to test a place out?
 
You just have to stick with the hand filing. It takes time to learn but once you get it its quick and easy.Watch some videos of some of the guys that are good at it they give tips on how to do it ,is not rocket science give it a try again !
 
Franny K said:
I think the Frazen machines are like 40 thousand. You also need to have a human setting it up. Send a few off to the razzor sharp guy. I would view that sort of service as making the whole chain uniform again and they as you sharpen it it will drift from ideal like it sounds you are at now.

As for the quality of razzorsharp, I don't think they lived up to the hype, I got 18 seconds vs 19 seconds with the new chain doing better. they were very uniform and not excessivelly shortened. Of course your results may vary. Mine were not de burred, they claim deburred if necessary.

It is less expensive to buy a 6 pack of Upstart chain off ebay or walmart.com if you use one of the stock loops they deal in.

For the bumper drive link chains when new the depth gauge is just a bit higher than the bumper on the drive link. I doubt any place will take the depth gauge down and then somehow take the bumper drive link down a bit more.

Have you got a John Deere dealership nearby. They are becoming mega storefronts under one name and owner over time. I go to one that has a $7 per loop sign or at least did last year. I would try something like this maybe they have a mechanized machine at one location they send to. You want to spend like $30 on 3 loops to test a place out?
Click to expand...

I have a local dealer that sharpens for $7. But my take on it has been based on the machine I saw there a few years ago... they didn't take any time on it at all. I mean, it took, like, three minutes. Just buzz buzz buzz and he's done. However, now they will not do them as you wait, it takes 2-3 days to get them done. It could be they no longer have the grinder and are sending them off to someone local. Or their mechanic does it after work or something. BUT... they do not do the rakers. Heck, I can buzz buzz buzz with my Dremel and sharpen the teeth, and I thought I was doing a good job. The honeymoon (with Dremel) didn't last. But, it might be the rakers. Almost all of my cutting is big, hard oak. I admit, that my dealer does make them sharp. But that's not all of it.

It doesn't matter which filing equipment I have used, I have never been satisfied with my results beyond a couple days. I didn't just start, I've been using a saw quite a bit for probably six years at least.

The only thing I can come up with regarding technique is that maybe I should sharpen sooner after getting a new chain. These oak logs I have been bucking are dirty with sand and even though I try to get it off, it's still a PITA. And it seems to me that a new chain dulls WAY too quick. It must be the dirt/sand. And heck, it seems a new chain should last a LOT longer than it is.

The recent disappointment is sharpening a chain like I have been doing (with good results) and then I am fired up about cutting and the dang thing cuts crooked. It's been inconsistent results. That is why I was just ready to say heck with it and pay somebody to do it because I can afford to pay someone and this really is a PITA. Heck, I have heard of people who buy new chains, dull them and sell them because they don't want to or can't sharpen. I get it, lol.

So many people like it, I guess I am going to try the Stihl 2-in-1 again. With new files.
 
I have pretty good results with my Dremmel-type. I watch the gap between the file and the tooth. When the gap disappears I'm done with that tooth.
 
Well I would recommend getting a couple of loops of semi chisel chain. It is a little easier to file and will hold sharp for longer in dirty wood. While no chain really does well in dirty wood, you will find the semi chisel does hold a little longer. Like others have said... watch several yoo toob videos on sharpening. Don't give up on hand filing. It is one of the crucial parts of cutting in the bush. Be patient... You can file em sharp.
 
livemusic said:
I have a local dealer that sharpens for $7. But my take on it has been based on the machine I saw there a few years ago... they didn't take any time on it at all. I mean, it took, like, three minutes. Just buzz buzz buzz and he's done. However, now they will not do them as you wait, it takes 2-3 days to get them done. It could be they no longer have the grinder and are sending them off to someone local. Or their mechanic does it after work or something. BUT... they do not do the rakers. Heck, I can buzz buzz buzz with my Dremel and sharpen the teeth, and I thought I was doing a good job. The honeymoon (with Dremel) didn't last. But, it might be the rakers. Almost all of my cutting is big, hard oak. I admit, that my dealer does make them sharp. But that's not all of it.

It doesn't matter which filing equipment I have used, I have never been satisfied with my results beyond a couple days. I didn't just start, I've been using a saw quite a bit for probably six years at least.

The only thing I can come up with regarding technique is that maybe I should sharpen sooner after getting a new chain. These oak logs I have been bucking are dirty with sand and even though I try to get it off, it's still a PITA. And it seems to me that a new chain dulls WAY too quick. It must be the dirt/sand. And heck, it seems a new chain should last a LOT longer than it is.

The recent disappointment is sharpening a chain like I have been doing (with good results) and then I am fired up about cutting and the dang thing cuts crooked. It's been inconsistent results. That is why I was just ready to say heck with it and pay somebody to do it because I can afford to pay someone and this really is a PITA. Heck, I have heard of people who buy new chains, dull them and sell them because they don't want to or can't sharpen. I get it, lol.

So many people like it, I guess I am going to try the Stihl 2-in-1 again. With new files.
Click to expand...


Good Morning Live,

Can I ask if you've given thought that your bar is whacked? Its not going to be as obvious when you have just tensioned a new or fresh sharpened chain on it, because you are getting it through the cut differently than when the tension loosens and the cutters are dulling. Combined with the fact you know you are cutting sand impregnated Oaks, I'm leaning toward advising you my opinion is not your sharpening skills, its the type of chain cutter profile you are using, the sand which you are not getting away from (I also know this sand in Oaks, our northern friends may not have this experience- its IN the bark and cambium, and it doesn't wash or blow out) , and most likley, a good bet your bar (rails) are worn.
 
Hi LiveMusic,

Please consider the difference between 'shaping' and 'sharpening'.
Shaping a damaged chain can be done with a file, but is so much faster with an indexed file guide or machine.
Additionally, all the cutters need to be pretty close to the same length - again, an indexed system is particularly useful for this.
Once the shape & length of the cutters is correct, it's fairly easy to do touch-ups with a file or file guide.

Are you using full-chisel chains? One encounter with a rock, nail, or dirty log and the cutter tips are bent down. At that point, the cutters need to be ground back to where they are flat again.
With dirt being a consideration, the suggestion from lohan808 to get semi-chisel chains is a good one.

Dremel-type sharpeners can be pretty effective and fairly fast. The stones do wear down so the first and last tooth sharpened can have slightly different geometry.
My understanding is the diamond burrs last a little longer than the stones, and they lose very little diameter as they dull, so more consistent results.
Wheel grinders can have very good results.
With any sharpening system, a significant part of the result is the expertise and care of the operator. Practice on some old chains.

Note that brand new chains can be dulled a bit by rough handling, before you even get them on the bar...

Thanks and good health, Weogo
 
I have and still sharpen chains for select people. There is nothing at all mysterious about sharpening chains. Basics are seeing what you are doing, and knowing what a sharp chain looks and feels like. Get some strong light, and reading glasses and go at it. Your results might be lacking your first couple of attempts, but they will be better then what you started with, and over time will get better and better.

There was a guy here that admitted that he had been sharpening chains for 30 years, and all that time was using the file backwards. If you cannot figure out something like that, then, well, IDK. You've got bigger problems then a forum can help you with.
 
MontanaResident said:
I have and still sharpen chains for select people. There is nothing at all mysterious about sharpening chains. Basics are seeing what you are doing, and knowing what a sharp chain looks and feels like. Get some strong light, and reading glasses and go at it. Your results might be lacking your first couple of attempts, but they will be better then what you started with, and over time will get better and better.

There was a guy here that admitted that he had been sharpening chains for 30 years, and all that time was using the file backwards. If you cannot figure out something like that, then, well, IDK. You've got bigger problems then a forum can help you with.
Click to expand...
and I have known guys who filed to end-of-life line, and never filed depth.... "my Dad never showed me, just know what Dad showed me"
 
If you're cutting dirty oak, I'd agree that a semi chisel chain might help your problem. In dirty wood, you're chain is going to dull quickly. Its similar getting your bar in the dirt a little on every other cut. Regardless of how the chain is sharpened, or who sharpened it, it's likely not going to last long. In situations like that it REALLY helps to be able to file your own chain because you can hit each tooth with 1 or 2 strokes after every tank of fuel to keep it sharp.

There MAY be nothing wrong with the way you're sharpening the chain. By all means, send them all to someone to sharpen. Take close up pictures before you send them, and then compare those to what you get back. Follow that up with a cutting session to see if the sharpened chains are performing they way you want them to. Maybe keep one of your chains back and sharpen it yourself. See how it compares to the ones you sent out and see if it was worth the cost.
 
lohan808 said:
Well I would recommend getting a couple of loops of semi chisel chain. It is a little easier to file and will hold sharp for longer in dirty wood. While no chain really does well in dirty wood, you will find the semi chisel does hold a little longer. Like others have said... watch several yoo toob videos on sharpening. Don't give up on hand filing. It is one of the crucial parts of cutting in the bush. Be patient... You can file em sharp.
Click to expand...
This, after watching a bunch of videos I got a much better understanding, and better results using my Grandberg file guide. To me the trickiest part is getting the file height correct.
 
and I have known guys who filed to end-of-life line, and never filed depth.... "my Dad never showed me, just know what Dad showed me"



That is real bad advice the dept gauges need to be filed down as the chain wears out. If not it's not going to cut good. Steve
 

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