ATOP Square Chainsaw Filing Guide

[Philbert]

This device has been mentioned in a number of threads, going back 17 years here on A.S.! But there seem to be limited comments on it. Perhaps, they are scattered among multiple square file threads? I was hoping to collect feedback from users in one thread that people could refer to, if they are interested.





https://www.baileysonline.com/atop-square-chisel-bit-filing-guide-assembly-15280.html




Some related A.S. threads:
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/atop-racing-cut.13868/https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/atop-square-filing-guide-testers.94432/https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/atop-alternative.257208/
Philbert

 

[Philbert]

A key challenge and barrier to square filing is learning how to position the file. So, an effective file guide should be attractive. The comments I have been able to find mention the following issues.
***Can folks who have used, or at least tried, the ATOP file guide, share their experiences, and maybe address these topics?***

- Cost is expensive.

- Works only on some types of chain (pitch? sequence? etc.).

- Requires use of single bevel files.

- Does not allow custom / variation in angles.

- Makes more of a 'racing' chain than a 'work' chain.

- Helpful to learn how to square file, but not necessary after.

Thanks.

Philbert

 

[RED-85-Z51]

Goodness...thats spendy

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

 

[Philbert]

Goodness...thats spendy

If it is not expensive, can you really call it a 'hobby'?

Philbert

 

[sawfun]

The problem I see with it is, that Baileys add for it states, that it only works on full comp chains. If it worked on full skip chains I would buy one.

 

[Philbert]

The problem I see with it is, that Baileys add for it states, that it only works on full comp chains. If it worked on full skip chains I would buy one.

Couldn't you put a little spacer in there to make up for the missing tooth?

Philbert

 

[sawfun]

Couldn't you put a little spacer in there to make up for the missing tooth?

Philbert

I don't know as for $200+, I won't buy it unless it will work for me. I dunno why the company wouldn't address this.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

Before baileys bought the rights to sell in the states. Which IMO ruined it at a cost point for folks.

Goran and I talked about it on my old website back in 2011 Feb. I even had a prototype with the 3 different rollers. They were sold with only 1. http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/chain/atop/msg85863/#msg85863

My first atop chain took about 30mins and was faster and I didnt know what I was doing back then.

ATOP sq my 1st try using new guide..................3.96....3.88...3.76

ATOP square sent in by Goran...........................3.41...3.38..3.34

Stihl square RSLK factory sharp..................................4.09...4.53 ...4.13

Oregon square CL factory sharp..................................3.88....4.20...4.25

Stihl round RS factory sharp....................................4.18..... 4.21....4.12


Talking with Goran in emails and he might be interested in coming over here in a sub-forum to help you guys out and answer questions.

There has been some pretty quick chains I have seen come off the ATOP square guide for softwoods and good square work chains. This was done by another friend I know that bought one to try out.
He is using a different file then what comes supplied and likes the results he is getting.

Weird thing is we both use it different when watching each other file with the guide and get different angles. So it comes down to the user input too.

Chain Goran sent me too. ATOP square filed chain in 10"x10" very dry firm poplar cant that has been setting over a year. Saw used was DN 357 set very rich by ear and then checked with tach at 13.8K.



Found a old video today. 2012 10x10 with Jay testing the chain build off chains on a stock 3120 with 9T and unlimited coil.

I was my atop chain I sent in. Nothing special

average time for 3 cuts.
Chain A 2.47 2.28 2.40 average 2.38
Chain B 2.50 2.57 2.31 2.48
Chain C 2.94 2.65 2.56 2.71
Chain D 2.53 2.54 2.35 2.47
Chain E 3.03 2.50 2.65 2.72
Chain F 2.72 2.66 2.91 2.76
Chain G 2.71 2.63 2.40 2.58
Chain H 2.75 3.06 2.81 2.87
Chain I 2.66 2.59 2.47 2.57

Mike A, Ron D, Al C, Joey or Jody F G, Kevin me I . Some didnt want their name out there.

 

[Philbert]

Thanks!

Were / are there different versions for different files or different pitch chains?

Do the different rollers produce different filing angles?

Philbert

 

[sawfun]

Did they ever make a model that works with full skip chain, or are these mostly for cant cutters with 20 inch bars?

 

[Philbert]

I reached out to Bailey's, who is the US Distributor for the ATOP guide, with some questions, and have summarized their responses below:

- The ATOP guide is only for full-sized, 3/8 pitch, full comp (standard sequence) chain.

- There is no special kit for using a 'goofy' file; they suggest using it with the standard file guide if preferred.

- The 'Racing Kit' was a separate set of rollers (no longer available) that changed the top plate angle by 5°.

- Some of the support documentation (PDF) is outdated.

- They did not appear to be familiar with square filing .325 pitch chains.

Philbert

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

Found pics on my website of the other 2 rollers not included in baileys kit they sold.

Mine come straight from Goran.

 

[Philbert]

So, basically, larger fit than the ‘standard’ rollers? Seems like a clever person could also make ‘sleeves’ to increase diameter, as an alternative to separate rollers.

This thing been out long enough for the patent to have expired?

Philbert

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

So, basically, larger fit than the ‘standard’ rollers? Seems like a clever person could also make ‘sleeves’ to increase diameter, as an alternative to separate rollers.

This thing been out long enough for the patent to have expired?

Philbert

Local guy just used electrical tape on his 1 roller baileys one he had. He made some good chain too.
He also switched to double bevel files. All kinds of ways to change angles.

 

[Philbert]

I was thinking about which type(s) of tape might work best: hold up to files, be easy to remove, etc. Maybe even heat-shrink tubing? Soda straws from fast food places (except in California!). The double bevel files also seem to be easier to find than the single bevel files, as well as offering twice as many 'sharpenings' for about the same cost, so that is good to know. FWIW, the instruction are for a single bevel file, which would make more sense if they were smooth on the bottom, so as to not dig into the rollers; all the ones I have seen have teeth on the bottom.



Philbert

 

[deye223]

Reminds me of the Timberline one i think it was about 2012 when I bought one sold within 6 months went back to freehand.
don't get me wrong it done a fantastic job just it was too slow.
https://www.timberlinesharpener.com/shop/?doing_wp_cron=1612244070.2426340579986572265625

 

[Philbert]

Reminds me of the Timberline one i think it was about 2012. . . .

There are some physical similarities, with an aluminum extrusion forming the main section, which clamps to the guide bar. The Timberline (first 2 photos) was also a 'redeveloped' version of an earlier 'Gamn' sharpener (3rd photo), which is why I am musing about somebody redeveloping the ATOP in a way that addresses some of its limitations.



Philbert

 

[Philbert]

More feedback from Bailey's:

Hi Philbert, Sorry for the delay, I reached out to the manufacturer to get accurate answers to your questions.

"- Was there ever a version for .325 pitch chains?
Yes there was a .325 version made at early stage, but never taken to the market as we found along the work of development that 3/8 fullchisel is the most common chain for pro user and speed cut users in the US.

- Some early photos show different diameter guide rollers: are these still available?
The "small" diameter rollers was found out at early stage to give a better top plate angle for speed cutting. The small rollers have been on the jig from day one in the US market and will most likely be so going forward.

- The instructions mention a 'Racing Kit', and some comments refer to a 'Goofy File' version: can you clarify if these are just different rollers, or completely different tools, or . . . ?
This is due to the old instruction where we wanted multiple versions of rollers to cover the need on the markets. So the so called Racing Kit is the same rollers that come with the jig from Baileys today. Spare rollers are available but none have yet asked for them in the US. About 100 blanks are still avaliable,and then no more units will be made. The market is limited and the unit is complicated to make, what make us pleased at the moment is non (zero) complains or any warranty claim. Next project is to go to the US market with our 3/8 fullchisel chain."

Philbert

 

[Piotr Pakula]

Isn't it that the sharper edge of the tooth will stomp faster?

 

[drf255]

I have one. The double bevel is the recommended file. Pretty sure they included a valorbe (?sp) with the kit.

It works ok, but it’s spendy. I’ll use for a special chain but I generally use round file for work, it’s just way faster to touch up. YMMV.