Best way to connect rope from More Power Puller to winch rope ?

[preventec47]

If I just use rope knots to tie my More-Power-Puller rope to my winch rope, I assume I will use a "bend" knot of some sort but
I want to make sure the knot will not weaken the overall setup too much but I will also need to be able to untie it easily
when done. I know there are many popular "bend" knots out there but which are both strong and easy to untie ?
OR should I tie a metal hook or caribeener connector to my More Power Puller rope and then hook or connect to a similar
hardware piece on my winch rope. Wouldnt the knots for the connectors be weaker than the overall rope setup ?

Here is a terrible video showing my new ratchet device in use.

 

[Del_]

Your anchor tree is highly suspect. Played at double speed it can easily be seen to be moving. Plus it doesn't look to be healthy to begin with.

Had it pulled over it may have got you. A higher tie point in the tree being felled would greatly reduce the stress on the anchor tree.

A knot weakens the rope about 50%.

You need to get a throw bag, throw line, a good long pulling rope and make use of the running bowline.

I'm glad it went well but you were in danger and likely thought the tree being felled was the bigger hazard when in fact it may have been the anchor tree.

 

[Dave1960_Gorge]

Not sure if this applies to your set up, but when I am using a powered winch with wire rope, I clip the hook on the end to the threaded rod running through an oversized shackle, and then tie my rope (midline) to the hoop. I have a shackle made of one inch steel -- so it matches the diameter of the largest haul rope I have to minimize reducing strength at the knot. Gets a few strange looks, but works great; probably weighs 10 lbs! I have hauled large logs up a hill this way, and pulled over big hazard trees leaning towards targets. Helps to have a 16.5 k winch with 5/8 wire rope on a custom bumper on my F-350.

When I use a fiddle block set up, I attach it to the haul rope with a prussic midline, and attach the end of the haul rope to an anchor, by a steel biner at the end and clipped to a big webbing sling choked around the base of a solid tree. You want the anchor to be bigger than the piece you are pulling on -- same concept as a block in a tree lowering pieces.

In either case, the stretch you put into the rope is often all you need to have the tree come over. But you want to tension it three times: once when first set up, another time after the face cut, and another time after the back cut and a wedge is in the tree. Then it will often come over without anymore cutting or pounding wedges, with the added bonus of the faller not having to run out of the way as it goes. Why the wedge? Because a rope under tension can suddenly slacken if it is looped around a branch that breaks, which can make you check your shorts thinking about the power line behind the tree!

 

[preventec47]

The video I refered to was NOT ME ... It was just an example of the More Power Puller being used that I found on Youtube I do agree with all your assessments about technique etc....

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Short answer, best knot for midline attachment in my eyes is the alpine butterfly... only about a 30% strength reduction and pretty easy to untie after loading... still think you would have been happier with the masdaam...

 

[preventec47]

Short answer, best knot for midline attachment in my eyes is the alpine butterfly... only about a 30% strength reduction and pretty easy to untie after loading... still think you would have been happier with the masdaam...

Which knot do you recommend for connecting two rope lines end to end ? I see a lot of bend knots but they dont talk about the ease of untying after use ? ? ? There is an alpine butterfly end to end knot as well as
bowline loops on the rope ends that intertwine with each other. Would the butterfly be easy to untie ? Is it stronger than the bowline ?

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Which knot do you recommend for connecting two rope lines end to end ? I see a lot of bend knots but they dont talk about the ease of untying after use ? ? ? There is an alpine butterfly end to end knot as well as
bowline loops on the rope ends that intertwine with each other. Would the butterfly be easy to untie ? Is it stronger than the bowline ?

Why are you going to need to connect 2 ropes end to end with that setup? Is your rigging rope too short?

 

[preventec47]

The way I understand it, The rope attached to the More Power Puller is permanently attached much like a Come-Along and I believe the rope is 30 ft which is the max extent of the pull distance. So I have to connect
it to the much longer rope tied to the tree top or running through a pulley.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

The way I understand it, The rope attached to the More Power Puller is permanently attached much like a Come-Along and I believe the rope is 30 ft which is the max extent of the pull distance. So I have to connect
it to the much longer rope tied to the tree top or running through a pulley.

But you have a hook on the power puller, and your pull line will always be a different length to the tree, so that will always be a midline attachment

 

[TheJollyLogger]

The way I understand it, The rope attached to the More Power Puller is permanently attached much like a Come-Along and I believe the rope is 30 ft which is the max extent of the pull distance. So I have to connect
it to the much longer rope tied to the tree top or running through a pulley.

Let's take a step back and look at the overall process...
1. Use your throwball and get your pull line set in the tree. You will want to ideally be 2/3 to 3/4 of the way up the main stem, and isolated around the trunk. Set your pull line by pulling it through with the throwline, and then tie a running bowline, and cinch it up. Alternatively, if that isn't feasible, as long as you are through a substantial crotch, you can base tie it with a running bowline above where you will make your cut.
2. Find a suitable anchor point for your power puller, and use a strap to anchor it. If need be, it can be offset to the line of fall, and you can rig a block to redirect your pull line. Your anchor point could be as close to the ground as possible to minimize leverage on your anchor tree.
3. Extend the line on your power puller to its maximum length, and then tie an alpine butterfly where the 2 will meet, minimizing all slack on the rig. At that point you can tension your rig and check to see how much run out is left on your power puller.

 

[preventec47]

Thank you for that very clear explanation. So it looks like I might have to tie multiple butterfly knots spaced
perhaps 25 feet apart so I can fill up my spool and then put a temp connection into the quick link on the
alpine butterfly and connect to anchor and then reverse ratchet my winch to let out all the spool rope to gain
another approx 25 ft section of pull. I would love to put a steel hook on the winch puller rope but if anything breaks loose, that hook can be flying as fast as 800 ft per second which is the same speed as a Colt 1911 45 cal bullet. so I need to pick a loop knot to hook into my quick link and I guess that will be a double bowline.

 

[pdqdl]

Which knot do you recommend for connecting two rope lines end to end ? I see a lot of bend knots but they dont talk about the ease of untying after use ? ? ? There is an alpine butterfly end to end knot as well as
bowline loops on the rope ends that intertwine with each other. Would the butterfly be easy to untie ? Is it stronger than the bowline ?

Joining two ropes end to end, and still easy to untie would call for a sheet bend. Strong, reliable, super fast and easy.
If used for life support or some really critical application, you might consider a double sheet bend, or perhaps stopper knots on the tails. I've never used a double sheet bend; it might not untie as easily as the regular version.

Note: the sheet bend is basically the same as the bowline, except with two ends and no loop. It's also the knot of choice when the ropes are of a different size.

 

[Wow]

Short answer, best knot for midline attachment in my eyes is the alpine butterfly... only about a 30% strength reduction and pretty easy to untie after loading... still think you would have been happier with the masdaam...

I've also used the "Farmers Knot" and or a Prussic with a loop..depends upon situation..

 

[pdqdl]

EGAD! I've given bad advice.

Having looked up the actual More Power Puller device, I see that it is strung not with "rope", but cable. You might think that is a common rope, but that is actually "Amsteel", which is a steel cable substitute made out of UHMW polyethylene. (Ultra High Molecular Weight)

Here is why my advice is now bad: Amsteel does not tolerate knots very well. It is particularly slick, it has a low melting point, and it should only be spliced. And that is advice straight from the manufacturer, too.
You might think otherwise, but I've tried it! I have several Amsteel lines, and if you try tying it to anything, it can actually squeeze itself in two, as it is so strong, yet the rope slides so easily against itself that the knots are unreliable. At best, the rope strength is dramatically reduced by any knots.

You should splice that Amsteel to a steel device with preferrably 3x the diameter of your rope, then just use an anchor hitch to whatever steel device you are using for the interface.

 

[pdqdl]

Thank you for that very clear explanation. So it looks like I might have to tie multiple butterfly knots spaced
perhaps 25 feet apart so I can fill up my spool and then put a temp connection into the quick link on the
alpine butterfly and connect to anchor and then reverse ratchet my winch to let out all the spool rope to gain
another approx 25 ft section of pull. I would love to put a steel hook on the winch puller rope but if anything breaks loose, that hook can be flying as fast as 800 ft per second which is the same speed as a Colt 1911 45 cal bullet. so I need to pick a loop knot to hook into my quick link and I guess that will be a double bowline.

No. Leave the steel hook spliced to the Amsteel, as it comes from the factory. Put a double bowline on your long rope to hang over the winch hook, so as to distribute the load over two loops rather than one. The sharply bent rope can break where it goes over the steel hook.

If you are really that worried about broken lines and flying steel, there are ways of reducing that risk. Toss a blanket over the hook prior to putting tension on it, and then perhaps tie that down to the rope. This will serve as a parachute for any flying parts of your rig.

Please understand that one of the reasons Amsteel is so good is due to it's low stretch. When broken, whatever steel parts are attached to the end just fall to the ground. Unlike a nylon rope, the amsteel is stretched so little that there is rarely any rebound worthy of notice.

 

[JRM]

For future reference of knots Grogs is a wealth of knowledge. Easy to go down the rabbit hole on this website.

https://www.animatedknots.com/

 

[TheJollyLogger]

And now you know why we recommended going with the masdaam...

 

[Stihl a grasshopper]

I don’t mean this sarcastically in the least, but what are you trying to pull that would require more than 30’ to get the job done if you aren’t using a 3 or 4:1 system? I would think 30’ would be more than enough.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

I don’t mean this sarcastically in the least, but what are you trying to pull that would require more than 30’ to get the job done if you aren’t using a 3 or 4:1 system? I would think 30’ would be more than enough.

It's just another homeowner not understanding the basic concept and trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[pdqdl]

For future reference of knots Grogs is a wealth of knowledge. Easy to go down the rabbit hole on this website.

https://www.animatedknots.com/

Find me just one knot that Grog's lists for use with Amsteel.