Chain sharpening help

[huskihl]

So I have a question. In the 1970s with the oil crisis, my dad bought a Sears craftsman chain sharpener. Takes the stones. Has a little guide that helps with the angles. Also came with a jig to help you file off the rakers.

So I learned how to sharpen quite a while back. Another poster mentioned that putting the bar in a vice with the motor head attached is a nice trick. Exactly how Dad and I do it. Puts the chain up at a nice height to work and everythings nice and stable.

The question: Is this system using a rotary tool and stone as good as a file? I seem to be getting good results this way. My chains last for a long time. My bars do too. In fact, I tend to keep the chains "touched up" and for whatever reason, it seems my rakers wear down on their own fast enough that I never have to file them. I never take a lot of metal off, because I don't have to. Tend to be careful and avoid cutting rocks and nails!!!!

Anyone else use this approach? My wood cutting buddy uses a file and everytime I look at his chains, I feel sorry for them........

It works fine if it works for you. Leaves a nicer finish than both a file and grinder

 

[user 122190]

So I have a question. In the 1970s with the oil crisis, my dad bought a Sears craftsman chain sharpener. Takes the stones. Has a little guide that helps with the angles. Also came with a jig to help you file off the rakers.

So I learned how to sharpen quite a while back. Another poster mentioned that putting the bar in a vice with the motor head attached is a nice trick. Exactly how Dad and I do it. Puts the chain up at a nice height to work and everythings nice and stable.

The question: Is this system using a rotary tool and stone as good as a file? I seem to be getting good results this way. My chains last for a long time. My bars do too. In fact, I tend to keep the chains "touched up" and for whatever reason, it seems my rakers wear down on their own fast enough that I never have to file them. I never take a lot of metal off, because I don't have to. Tend to be careful and avoid cutting rocks and nails!!!!

Anyone else use this approach? My wood cutting buddy uses a file and everytime I look at his chains, I feel sorry for them........

Some people are blissfully unaware just how poorly their saws cut. If you got something that works for you, good for you. Personally if my saw/chain is cutting any worse or the same as a new chain, I'm touching it up, with a single file. I wasn't born with a file in my paw, and it took awhile to learn how to sharpen. Just saying...

 

[Ironhorsedoctor]

Personally I would learn how to file free hand.

Buckin Billy Ray has some really good videos on it on youtube.

I agree! Buckin Billy Ray Smith has excellent tutorials and a pleasure to watch! Get the gullet friends!

 

[sean donato]

Never been a fan of the 2 in 1 files. It assumes the chain is right from the get go, and honestly the depth gauge doesn't need filed down every time the chain needs touched up. Took a long time till I became proficient free hand. Practice, practice, practice!

 

[Mad Professor]

I taught myself how to freehand file back in the 1970s.

We'd by some files, cut ~ 5"lengths of ~ 11/2" hardwood branch, and tap the pointed file end into the pith. That's how we made file handles.

One other thing, always wear some good gloves when filing. Even a dull cuter can skin a knuckle.

 

[Franny K]

and for whatever reason, it seems my rakers wear down on their own fast enough that I never have to file them.

What make and model of chain is this for? Or multiple ones? Most seem to need the depth gauges taken down but the 3/8lp 91VX with the shorter cutters than 91vxl seems toward the not needing it.

 

[Evan]

Im on learn to free hand fence.
A few files and handle and your good to go.

You can then switch to free handing with a dremel.

A good solid vise is a must to strap saw down in. File it then test in the wood if it doesn't cut for **** file again but change something. Cut again. Repertoire.

I think you did say your retired?

 

[Automender]

If you sharpen a chain when it is still in the bar don't you run a risk of the harden steel filings being introduced into the chain and also the bar causing bar wear?

 

[user 122190]

If you sharpen a chain when it is still in the bar don't you run a risk of the harden steel filings being introduced into the chain and also the bar causing bar wear?

No. Insignificant affects, and over a very short time. Of course there are those that think even using a non OEM clutch cover nut will destroy the saw, cut your leg off and crash the DOW Industrials, but what do know. I'm not an expert like most here are.

 

[ZeroJunk]

If you sharpen a chain when it is still in the bar don't you run a risk of the harden steel filings being introduced into the chain and also the bar causing bar wear?

Good Lord

 

[Ted Jenkins]

So I have a question. In the 1970s with the oil crisis, my dad bought a Sears craftsman chain sharpener. Takes the stones. Has a little guide that helps with the angles. Also came with a jig to help you file off the rakers.

So I learned how to sharpen quite a while back. Another poster mentioned that putting the bar in a vice with the motor head attached is a nice trick. Exactly how Dad and I do it. Puts the chain up at a nice height to work and everythings nice and stable.

The question: Is this system using a rotary tool and stone as good as a file? I seem to be getting good results this way. My chains last for a long time. My bars do too. In fact, I tend to keep the chains "touched up" and for whatever reason, it seems my rakers wear down on their own fast enough that I never have to file them. I never take a lot of metal off, because I don't have to. Tend to be careful and avoid cutting rocks and nails!!!!

Anyone else use this approach? My wood cutting buddy uses a file and everytime I look at his chains, I feel sorry for them........

A high quality chain grinder does a great job with most chains period. The process is very slow and much more expensive than hand sharpening. A machine sharpened chain will probably last half as long or less than a hand sharpened chain. If you promised me the moon to hand sharpen thirty chains in a day I would not do it. For those that occasionally cut a few cords a year likely it would be best for them to take a few chains to a shop and let them sharpen. For all others that want to be more productive and effective it is worth the effort to learn the hand sharpen system. Most OP do not realize that to take a chain off the saw and a sharp one back on takes plenty of time. I think ALL file guides are junk. I know many folks who with the aid of a guide get some teeth just right but can not get the opposite teeth to match. Years ago I would make a cut into a log or some stable section of wood put the bar into it and sharpen away. that process is not as effective as using a bar vice by far. For those who want to learn should watch some videos to start with and see if the process becomes satisfactory. Then find some one who is accomplished show you some methods to do it well. Few people mention that as the process is going on the OP needs to lift the file a little to get the leading sharp edge really sharp. The rakers usually need at least one stroke for every tank of fuel or two or three after several tanks. A couple of hours each day of cutting for six to ten times should get the OP into a high quality bracket of fast cutting with satisfying flying chips. Thanks

 

[Backstage]

I’ going to chip in (see what I did there? ) and say that the 2-1 is the beat way to learn short of having someone who really knows being there to teach you in person. It gets you used to wtf is supposed to be going on with the filing process. They’re easy enough to use that you won’t tolerate a chain being dull. Soon enough, you’ll look at a chain and say “Heck, if I did xyz with the gullet or whatever, I could beat the job that 2-1 does for the specific wood I cut.”

Then you let the 2-1 gather dust on the shelf because it’s done its job.

 

[neppok]

It works fine if it works for you. Leaves a nicer finish than both a file and grinder

I have the same ball-bearing Sears grinder. bin using it for 30 years , no guides. Finally sold my stand-up foley grinder. Never used it. It was so time consuming. I'm a machinest, so hand grinding lathe tool bits, drill bits , taps.
end-mills. So for me chainsaw is easy.
I use digital depth gauge on the rakers,
sometimes I get a little greedy thou.

 

[fields_mj]

So I have a question. In the 1970s with the oil crisis, my dad bought a Sears craftsman chain sharpener. Takes the stones. Has a little guide that helps with the angles. Also came with a jig to help you file off the rakers.

So I learned how to sharpen quite a while back. Another poster mentioned that putting the bar in a vice with the motor head attached is a nice trick. Exactly how Dad and I do it. Puts the chain up at a nice height to work and everythings nice and stable.

The question: Is this system using a rotary tool and stone as good as a file? I seem to be getting good results this way. My chains last for a long time. My bars do too. In fact, I tend to keep the chains "touched up" and for whatever reason, it seems my rakers wear down on their own fast enough that I never have to file them. I never take a lot of metal off, because I don't have to. Tend to be careful and avoid cutting rocks and nails!!!!

Anyone else use this approach? My wood cutting buddy uses a file and everytime I look at his chains, I feel sorry for them........

I've used the rotary stones with my dremel when I find a rock. They work fine, but I prefer a hand file myself.

As far as the rakers go, I only do mine maybe 3 or 4 times across the entire life of the chain. If the chain is sharp, but its not pulling into the wood, I check my rakers and drop them accordingly.

 

[pdqdl]

I use one of these Husky roller guides. Make sure you get the correct one for your chain.View attachment 1040050

Those are my favorites for the round filing. I routinely file with no guides, but the Husky filing guides are easier and faster to use than plain filing.

I've never figured out how to use them for the depth gauges, though.

 

[pdqdl]

So here's another dumb question. What's the difference between full and semi chisel. Do they both get sharpened the same.

Yeah, you sharpen them the same.

If you are competing or something you may use a square cut file.

That is a whole different can of worms.

Not quite. I believe most sharpening instructions come at 30° for semi-chisel, and 25° for chisel tooth. It varies a bit according to what brand you buy, and probably doesn't make too much difference.

 

[Evan]

Lifting the file comes with lots of chain sharping time.
I just sharpened a chain on a stihl ms 170sm. I the saw quit running .
got it running then tuned the carb through the muffler before making any test cuts I grabbed a file wrong size second file then my grinder bits wtf is thing.
found a 1/8" carbide burr would work had to lift pretty good to get it sharp. Winged it giving the rakers a bump.That little thing eats some wood now now.

Guys like what did you do well I sharpend the chain and tuned the carb hes very happy . I was impressed to that little thing really woke up.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Not quite. I believe most sharpening instructions come at 30° for semi-chisel, and 25° for chisel tooth. It varies a bit according to what brand you buy, and probably doesn't make too much difference.

Stihl says that Stihl chains are "generally" sharpened at a 30 degree angle to parallel.

Not sure what they mean by general , but I don't know of any chain that they specify anything else.

I'm thinking if I sharpened one to 25 degrees I would never notice the difference.

 

[pdqdl]

Chisel tooth chain is a bit more aggressive. It cuts deeper into the wood, but dulls a bit quicker. If working in hardwoods, it is generally thought to be too aggressive, so it gets tuned back to 25°. For some folks, not all.

I've ground them all sorts of ways, and I mostly agree: there isn't much difference between 25° & 30°. The witness marks on Stihl chisel tooth chain are set at 25°, I believe, but I am certain that the Oregon chains work that way. I don't buy Stihl chain, so I'll not claim any expertise on their chains.

 

[Cliff R]

A grinder has it's place in this deal but 99 percent of the time you can "touch-up" your chains with a file and get right back to work with the saw.

I've been hand sharpening since the 1970's and pretty good at it. My routine is to take 4-5 saws to any outing, cleaned, fueled, razor sharp chains and ready to go. If you hit something or stick it the dirt, or the saw you are using just stops cutting well just grab another and keep working.

I used to touch them up in the field or carry extra chains but these days I will NOT take a saw apart for any reason till back to the shop. It's just a PITA to mess with all that oily sawdust and fiddling with bar nuts and adjustors. Filing without a shop vise can also be a lesson in humility.

Back at the shop after every outing my saws get blown off with compressed air, chains tightened, touched up, bars greased, and saws topped off with fuel and oil. A big shop vise firmly mounted on a heavy duty table is a must for sharpening chains. Make sure they are tight, correct size file, and follow the original angles. It takes some practice but very quickly you will get good at it saving both time and money.

I take the rakers down if/as needed. Used to measure them but these days I just file them couple of strokes and keep moving. I spot-check once in a while to make sure angles and cutting depth is correct. These new chains with the line on the cutting teeth really help to keep you from going too far off course.

Sooner or later you are going to shove the chain into a big piece of sandstone laying on top of the ground, or hit a nail driving in the tree decades ago. Those chains need a grinder in most cases to get them back to even on both sides/angles back to where they should be. You will also get more life out of a chain "touching" it up vs grinding with a machine. They tend to take off more material even when you are pretty good at setting things up.......FWIW.......