Chain sharpening help

[ZeroJunk]

Yeah, I have a Stihl grinder at home. What usually gets me is barbed wire in the middle of something. Even hit a porcelain insulator . Other that that I hit it about three licks with a file.

 

[Franny K]

If you sharpen a chain when it is still in the bar don't you run a risk of the harden steel filings being introduced into the chain and also the bar causing bar wear?

The steel of the cutter is one thing, it is soft enough to file, the actual cutting edge is in a layer of hard chrome, and then the abrasive dust if a Dremel type tool is used. I doubt the file is any concern, the chips are going to virtually all drop away from the bar.

 

[PV Hiker]

Chisel tooth chain is a bit more aggressive. It cuts deeper into the wood, but dulls a bit quicker. If working in hardwoods, it is generally thought to be too aggressive, so it gets tuned back to 25°. For some folks, not all.

I've ground them all sorts of ways, and I mostly agree: there isn't much difference between 25° & 30°. The witness marks on Stihl chisel tooth chain are set at 25°, I believe, but I am certain that the Oregon chains work that way. I don't buy Stihl chain, so I'll not claim any expertise on their chains.

I agree that when filing angles being off from the chain specifications a bit one is not going to notice too much. But the Stihl chains average top plate is 30 degrees and the file 90 degrees parallel to bar.

If you are off from the Stihl recommended guide as long as the working corner is sharp and the depth gauges are adjusted and you are having good results in the wood you are cutting, then go with what is working for you.

Here are the Stihl specifications and set up for using a grinder from Stihl web pages.

 

[Philbert]

I don't cut alot so I was thinking of getting the stihl 2 in 1 file thing. Are those any good.

Lots of ways to sharpen: everyone has to find something that works for them!

The STIHL and Pferd (same thing, different color) 2-in-1file guides are very popular for people satisfied with a ‘basic’ sharpening. They do not work for custom angles, etc.

You still need a way to clamp the saw (vise, stump vise, etc.) and sharp files; replace them when they stop cutting. Saw chain files are most affordable when purchased by the dozen.

Good light also helps.

In the 1970s with the oil crisis, my dad bought a Sears craftsman chain sharpener. Takes the stones. Has a little guide that helps with the angles. Also came with a jig to help you file off the rakers.

Dremel, STIHL, Oregon, Granberg, and others sell rotary tools for sharpening, saw chains. The only issue is that the diameter of the stones change as they wear, so you may need to compensate for that.

I believe most sharpening instructions come at 30° for semi-chisel, and 25° for chisel tooth.

‘Top plate’ sharpening angles are more tied to the type of cutting than the type of cutter:
25° - hard or frozen wood;
30° - general use;
35° - soft woods.

Philbert

 

[pdqdl]

The only issue is that the diameter of the stones change as they wear, so you may need to compensate for that

Probably for most "stones". I've tried out a diamond file in the dremel, and it did ok until it was bald. That didn't take very long, either. I'm sure someone somewhere makes a good one, but I've never developed any reliance on a dremel for sharpening.

 

[Welderman85]

Are these anygood

 

[SteveSr]

Are these anygood

Can't speak for that particular one but I have and use its predecessor mostly when I hit a rock or something. The rest of the time I use a regular hand file with an attached depth guide.

 

[mbrick]

I have a few Pferd 2-in-1 and they work very well in my experience.

I've sharpened chains for others (that was dull, or they never touched the rakers, or just plain did not cut) and they were so surprised with the results they bought one.
I've also seen some really lousy store sharpened chains that this beats. But I'm sure its not going to top pro grinders.

I also like that I can file as little or much off each tooth if there is damage on a particular tooth (although I try to keep it uniform to the same strokes throughout the chain).

One day I'd like to try a grinder.

 

[j-jock]

I have the same ball-bearing Sears grinder. bin using it for 30 years , no guides. Finally sold my stand-up foley grinder. Never used it. It was so time consuming. I'm a machinest, so hand grinding lathe tool bits, drill bits , taps.
end-mills. So for me chainsaw is easy.
I use digital depth gauge on the rakers,
sometimes I get a little greedy thou.

I have the same grinder, and although I purchased it in 1976, I still have regrets over having picked the 115 volt version rather than the 12 volt. I had countless times, where my friend and I were cleaning out slash piles, that one of us would catch some dirt or small rock embedded in the bark, and we would dull one or more teeth. We solved the problem by carrying an extra chain, but that was far more of a pain than it would have been to dress up a couple of teeth on the saw. (Hand filing, was sometimes an option, but there always seemed to be one or more teeth that needed extensive filing).
The grinder is still working beautifully. I think the people who have a problem with electric grinders, is that they grind on one tooth for too long, and get the tooth so hot that teeth lose their hardness.
I also have the Husky file jigs with the rollers, and that is also an excellent method for sharpening. I do hand file some chains, just to keep in practice.

 

[Xmaniac]

Here's a guide I show my students when teaching proper chain sharpening. This is what it should look like... you have to set the proper depth with round file right off the bat. Using one hand is only going to tickle the chain tooth... you want uniformity in tooth angles and length, rakers as well or else your saw will cut sideways. Everybody has a strong and weak side when filing.. it's imperative to compensate for the weak side. I'll take a brand new chain out of the box and hit it a few strokes with a round file, then take the rakers down one solid lick with flat file. Remember, chains sharpened by a machine and then put in a box that gets thrown around will get burs, nicks on the edges, plus a machine can't mimic the love a skilled sawyer has... same thing with File's. If they are just rolling around in a toolbox, they also will get dull. I put plastic drink straws over them and store them in a 1.5" pvc pipe with screw caps on the ends...bench grinders and rotary dremels have a tendency to over temper the tooth if not careful but work great for chains that hit rock's or concrete... sharpening is an art, different angles work better for soft and hard wood's, especially if you're running modified saws...

 

[Philbert]

Probably for most "stones". I've tried out a diamond file in the dremel, and it did ok until it was bald. That didn't take very long, either. I'm sure someone somewhere makes a good one, but I've never developed any reliance on a dremel for sharpening.

@Grandedog was offering some ABN/CBN stones for these types of grinders several years ago, but I think that they are NLA. If anyone knows where to find them, please post that information. Thanks.

I've also seen some really lousy store sharpened chains that this beats. But I'm sure its not going to top pro grinders.

Neither the file, nor the grinder, nor the guide sharpen the chain: a person sharpens the chain, and these are some of the tools they may use.

Possible to sharpen or ruin a chain with any of them.

Knowledge, skill, experience, and attitude play a big part. Pick one method, and focus on improving each time.

Philbert

 

[mbrick]

Agreed Philbert - I meant pros in their use of a grinder.

 

[huskihl]

@Grandedog was offering some ABN/CBN stones for these types of grinders several years ago, but I think that they are NLA. If anyone knows where to find them, please post that information. Thanks.



Neither the file, nor the grinder, nor the guide sharpen the chain: a person sharpens the chain, and these are some of the tools they may use.

Possible to sharpen or ruin a chain with any of them.

Knowledge, skill, experience, and attitude play a big part. Pick one method, and focus on improving each time.

Philbert

More often than not, it’s the Indian, not the arrow

 

[cdherman]

@Grandedog was offering some ABN/CBN stones for these types of grinders several years ago, but I think that they are NLA. If anyone knows where to find them, please post that information. Thanks.



Neither the file, nor the grinder, nor the guide sharpen the chain: a person sharpens the chain, and these are some of the tools they may use.

Possible to sharpen or ruin a chain with any of them.

Knowledge, skill, experience, and attitude play a big part. Pick one method, and focus on improving each time.

Philbert

Suppose I feel better given the responses. Was taught in highschool wood working how to sharpen a chisel as well. There is a certain feel you develop about angles.

I will keep using my old Craftsman rotary then. I have a 12v version too, later in the Craftsman years and not nearly as robust. Sad about Sears and Craftsman....

I would agree with the posts that mention wear to the stones effecting things. My old craftsman tool has a guage that helps me get an idea how much the stones are worn. I just eye it now, but was handy in the earlier years.....

 

[RedFir Down]

Neither the file, nor the grinder, nor the guide sharpen the chain: a person sharpens the chain, and these are some of the tools they may use.

Priceless Philbert! Put that in your signature and let them read it.

 

[Evan]

Dude thats a badass cutter

 

[Bill G]

$3? Lol
going rate now is closer to $15

What the heck are they charging you for a new chain then?

 

[singinwoodwackr]

What the heck are they charging you for a new chain then?

$30-40
and this is Idaho, not NorCal, sheesh…

 

[Bill G]

Most shops around here won't even touch the depths.

$8-20+ depending on the DL.

Price on File-n-Joints around here have skyrocketed, too. $55-75 before tax. Metal is weaker than the older models, more prone to breaking.

What are they charging you for a new chain then?

 

[singinwoodwackr]

Here's a guide I show my students when teaching proper chain sharpening. This is what it should look like... you have to set the proper depth with round file right off the bat. Using one hand is only going to tickle the chain tooth... you want uniformity in tooth angles and length, rakers as well or else your saw will cut sideways. Everybody has a strong and weak side when filing.. it's imperative to compensate for the weak side. I'll take a brand new chain out of the box and hit it a few strokes with a round file, then take the rakers down one solid lick with flat file. Remember, chains sharpened by a machine and then put in a box that gets thrown around will get burs, nicks on the edges, plus a machine can't mimic the love a skilled sawyer has... same thing with File's. If they are just rolling around in a toolbox, they also will get dull. I put plastic drink straws over them and store them in a 1.5" pvc pipe with screw caps on the ends...bench grinders and rotary dremels have a tendency to over temper the tooth if not careful but work great for chains that hit rock's or concrete... sharpening is an art, different angles work better for soft and hard wood's, especially if you're running modified saws...

I wanna see the chain…and the saw…that came off of