Chainsaw choice- help decision going forward

[ericm979]

Companies violate patents all the time. Even big domestic ones. I've seen that up close and personal. My small US based company won a lawsuit against a large US company who stole our IP.

It happens even more when the IP is from one country and the infringer is in another. Many companies do not protect their IP internationally because it costs more and it's complex. And then there's the problem of mounting a legal action in a foreign country. Even if their legal system is reasonably fair and impartial it costs more in money and hassle.

But like I said, I bet the patents on the saws that are getting copied are probably expired. Patents get filed before a product goes into production. Once you tell people about your product in detail even if its not in production yet, it's either too late to file or there's limited time like 1 year.

So for example the most popular Chinese clone saw, the MS660 is the 1122 series. That started production in 1986 with the 064 and the 660 came in 2004. Many of the patents would have been on the original 064 because it was a new series. Those would be long expired. Any patents for new inventions that the 660 had that the 064 and 066 didn't would be expired or about to. A larger bore or stroke would be impossible to patent. It has to be a novel idea.

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[pdqdl]

There's a mulch / woodchip pile the size of stacked doublewides now.

Who/How could have posisbly chipped it all... and why!? I guess they want it gone and mulch chips are easier for residents to pickup this time of year.

Sounds like a tub grinder was hauled in.

Something like this makes short work of logs.

 

[Bill G]

Sounds like a tub grinder was hauled in.

Something like this makes short work of logs.
View attachment 1091315

No that is a tub grinder not good on logs.


This what is used here.

Yes the older versions are used here on my place

 

[pdqdl]

Bill. You should know better than to argue with me about tree equipment. I'll not argue with you about how to restore old chainsaws, but kindly don't try to tell me that a tub grinder isn't for big logs. 30' long logs? No. But that is the city dump, and those are not long logs.

That video is of a 3590xl whole tree chipper. It's maximum capacity is a 36" perfectly cylindrical tree.
The picture I posted is of a Vermeer TG7000. It's tub inside diameter is 10 feet. The machine doesn't even list a maximum size, but it is presumably somewhere smaller than 10 feet in diameter.

Tub grinders generally will always have a bigger capacity than a whole tree chipper. I routinely deliver truckloads of logs and brush to yard waste disposal sites. They use tub grinders, and routinely chew up 5' & 6' diameter logs. One of the disposal sites does get kinda snotty, however. They want all the logs cut to 6' in length, but have no restrictions on diameter.

'Nuff said?

No? Well argue with this:

 

[NorthernMaverick]

Sorry i didnt read all 5 pages but heres my advice. Get used husky 372 from a dealer if you can find it, or spring a grand on a new 572 and get the wood cut quick. Echo 590s are a piece of work, yes people like them, but they won't hold against a pro class saw. That's some good sized wood, and you're going to be wasting time with a 50 - 60 cc farm and ranch saw.

 

[Bill G]

Bill. You should know better than to argue with me about tree equipment. I'll not argue with you about how to restore old chainsaws, but kindly don't try to tell me that a tub grinder isn't for big logs. 30' long logs? No. But that is the city dump, and those are not long logs.

That video is of a 3590xl whole tree chipper. It's maximum capacity is a 36" perfectly cylindrical tree.
The picture I posted is of a Vermeer TG7000. It's tub inside diameter is 10 feet. The machine doesn't even list a maximum size, but it is presumably somewhere smaller than 10 feet in diameter.

Tub grinders generally will always have a bigger capacity than a whole tree chipper. I routinely deliver truckloads of logs and brush to yard waste disposal sites. They use tub grinders, and routinely chew up 5' & 6' diameter logs. One of the disposal sites does get kinda snotty, however. They want all the logs cut to 6' in length, but have no restrictions on diameter.

'Nuff said?

No? Well argue with this:

Awe don't get your undies in a twist you might hurt yourself

 

[pniterdr]

I live in NJ and a few, 7 or 8 months back bought a Makita/ Dolmar 6410 that was HD rental saw. $400 with 20" bar and chain. I have Stihl ms170, ms290, 034 and 380. The 380 is a beast with a 28" bar I use mostly for milling but I've noticed that when I'm bucking rounds I'm running the MD. I love this saw. Sometimes run a 25" but mostly 20" and with a sharp chain it pulls me through good hardwood. There is a website showing what HD has available in your area. I was skeptical but a friend who does some Stihl work for me said that the rentals are never in one person's hands long enough to do real damage unless they drop a tree on them! So.... 8 mos in it's my go to and we have named her "one pull" for obvious reasons.

 

[IntegrityCarpentry]

I live in NJ and a few, 7 or 8 months back bought a Makita/ Dolmar 6410 that was HD rental saw. $400 with 20" bar and chain. I have Stihl ms170, ms290, 034 and 380. The 380 is a beast with a 28" bar I use mostly for milling but I've noticed that when I'm bucking rounds I'm running the MD. I love this saw. Sometimes run a 25" but mostly 20" and with a sharp chain it pulls me through good hardwood. There is a website showing what HD has available in your area. I was skeptical but a friend who does some Stihl work for me said that the rentals are never in one person's hands long enough to do real damage unless they drop a tree on them! So.... 8 mos in it's my go to and we have named her "one pull" for obvious reasons.

What is the website? I just found larger equipment sales

 

[Wow]

All very useful insight. Thanks guys.

It sounds like I cant really go too wrong with the echo 590 with an 18 and a 24" bar. I'd just have to limit to avoiding the biggest stuff.
Something like a 372xp/24" used would be a target if I get my budget up.

The comment someone made re most people being in over their heads with big wood is not lost on me. Compared to an average homeowner I've cut a ton of wood as a teenager and now starting again in my 50's, but the fact is the overwhelming vast majority of all that was on the small side easily handled by a 35cc 16" homelite. I am not a pro.

re chinese, its not my preference and without getting political I do agree. That said, it's on the table weighing the pros and cons. I get it though.

I prefer to not buy used for this. I usually buy used for a lot of items, things that i know what to look for when someone is trying to offload crap. I dont trust anyone enough and dont have the experience to know if I'd be buying someones problems wrt a chainsaw. I'll be attempting to find and then get to know a local shop in this regard.

I'm going to keep using what I have, clean up and sell off the 021 and the craftsman. Keep on eye what continues to show up at the dump, measure what size of "big" will be my realistic limit, and then revisit this.

My advice.. Buy some books. Go on line and find video's BC Fallers is good if they are still on line.. Once you KNOW you are ready move up slowly to bigger trees and Learn how to make Wooden Wedges. USE them often. Never HURRY or rush or lean on the saw. Sharp saws pull themselves into the wood. Even on Plunge cuts I like a wedge on both sides of the cut, some don't some do.. I prefere wooden wedges because I've seen Plastic wedges snap off at the cut line. I've had ONLY 1 wooden wedge do that. It was an experiemental wood, "Persimmion" someone suggested. I love Elm and Hickory. I cut my slab just over 1 inch thich and my wedges are cut on a table saw using a Jig. I shape the driving heads like this so they don't split on impact. They are coated and painted but not sanded. I like the wood grain for holding in the cut. Some are just over an ince thick and some just under. On a HUGE tree I've used up to 6 wedges. I love wedges. They love me. If you use them you might love them too.. Smile..

 

[FrugalFirewoodDad]

Echo, echo echo....Do You hear an Echo in this thread

Why yes, yes i do! Thread update- I treated myself to a Christmas gift this year. I snagged a new echo 590 on quite a pre-holiday sale. It came with 18"bar, but i used an amazon gift card i had burning a hole in my pocket to get a 20" oregon bar on sale as well. The 20" is on it now and I'll be giving it a workout tomorrow.

Sorry i didnt read all 5 pages but heres my advice. Get used husky 372 from a dealer if you can find it, or spring a grand on a new 572 and get the wood cut quick. Echo 590s are a piece of work, yes people like them, but they won't hold against a pro class saw. That's some good sized wood, and you're going to be wasting time with a 50 - 60 cc farm and ranch saw.

Thanks for the info/advice. I ultimately went with the 590 mostly for $ reasons. I got a deal I couldnt pass up before the holidays. As mentioned many times in this thread and others, it seems to be a sweet spot between bang for buck and being a capable more than homeowner level saw but not quite pro level.

Thanks for all of the advice here and in other threads.

 

[FrugalFirewoodDad]

Update-
bar on, lubed, gassed up, and tackled 2 fallen Chesnut oak's; one big and dead and one small and less dead.

The upgrade from the 35cc Blackmax was a huge upgrade over the 021. The upgrade from the blackmax to the echo 590 is massive.

Grinning from ear to ear. Love the sound. Love that I can stop mid cut and then continue. Love the one pull start.

I ended up cutting a bunch into 10" logs jsut because!
The upgrade from 16 or 18" 35 cc to 20" 60cc is simply awesome.
Couldnt be happier right now.

Didnt go to the dump for the huge stuff, prbably wont until next week. Its super windy and wife wants to watch a movie later.

 

[tJKrider]

Update-
bar on, lubed, gassed up, and tackled 2 fallen Chesnut oak's; one big and dead and one small and less dead.

The upgrade from the 35cc Blackmax was a huge upgrade over the 021. The upgrade from the blackmax to the echo 590 is massive.

Grinning from ear to ear. Love the sound. Love that I can stop mid cut and then continue. Love the one pull start.

I ended up cutting a bunch into 10" logs jsut because!
The upgrade from 16 or 18" 35 cc to 20" 60cc is simply awesome.
Couldnt be happier right now.

Didnt go to the dump for the huge stuff, prbably wont until next week. Its super windy and wife wants to watch a movie later.

Congrats! Glad you're happy with the purchase. I love the 4910 I went with which is only a 50cc saw. I can imagine the 590 is a beast. I get why there are some that have negative comments and/or recommend a "pro" saw but for most it simply isn't necessary. Hope this one lasts you a long time!