Chainsaws at 10,000 ft

[Ted Jenkins]

I heard from my stihl dealer when I went to pick up my new normal 261 that they are going to do away with limiters since California no longer allows gas saws….anyone else hear that?

All outdoor power equipment that relies on Gasoline will be prohibited in a year or so. The law has some exceptions. I am planning on buying four more new saws this year in anticipation. I have talked with several fire departments and they told me they have no idea what will happen. At the present time fire fighting will be a big deal with out equipment to do what is needed. Thanks

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Starting to lean that way as well. I will likely set up a couple manual tune saws that I will only use around the land. Currently thinking about trying a Husky 455 or 460 and a 372. Anyone have other recommendations for manual tune saws for 10,000 ft?

At the moment I have several 460s and 372s so which is better. The 372 is light years ahead in performance. Both are OK but the 372 is so simple to work on in the field that it is my favorite. The 372 is so much more sensitive to tuning but is the best for high altitude. Minor modifications will let you think you were at sea level. Thanks

 

[Dennisthemenace]

I've been hunting in Colorado for many years and zero issues with any of the saws we've taken along to cut firewood, other than they are down on power from what they are here at 1200'. We camp at 9600' and cut as high as 12,000' but most is done closer to camp about 9600-10k..

Slight re-tuning is required. Before I even fire one up I'll increase the idle speed screw 1/2 to 3/4 turns, start as I would here, then trim the "L" speed screw in a bit to get it to idle at it's best. Once it's idled a minute or two I'll make a cut and tune the "H" speed screw for best power in the cut.

Not much more difficult than that. That procedure works for every saw I've taken with us over the years. I like to take one of my Husqvarna 55's (closed port) as they have high compression and don't fall off as much as some of the others. I've taken the Echo CS-370 a few times, it starts and runs well but WAY down on power and slow in the cut.

I'll add here that we also take our older Honda 500 Quads and they have carburetors. They are flawless at any altitude. The only adjustment required for them is to turn the idle speed screw in about a full turn and very little use of the enrichener is needed to get them going on a cold start. I also switch over to Colorado's "low" octane fuel when we drop out of Wyoming and drop in from the North. Made the mistake once of leaving some 93 octane in one of the saws we took along and it didn't work well at all till we dumped it out and re-filled with 85 octane (pretty sure that's what we get out there).

So aside from going to lower octane fuel and a slight re-tune zero issues now for well over 20 years on our out West hunting trips.........

I doubt there is any where in Oz above 4000 ft where a man is allowed cut decent amounts of firewood. 12000 seems incredible to me.

 

[Mad Professor]

Indeed prof, my thought was it becomes more volatile at altitude but not enough to counter the thin air. I should have typed that better.

AV gas too. Planes don't want to get vapor lock.........

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I doubt there is any where in Oz above 4000 ft where a man is allowed cut decent amounts of firewood. 12000 seems incredible to me.

I live at 6,000 but do not do much work here. I consistently get calls to work at 8,000 and 9,000 feet where there is enormous amounts of wood to cut and sell. However I also have plenty of wood to cut at lower elevations and especially Oak which sells for twice as much as any thing else. So I go where it is the easiest and hardwood is the most important. Thanks

 

[Dennisthemenace]

I live at 6,000 but do not do much work here. I consistently get calls to work at 8,000 and 9,000 feet where there is enormous amounts of wood to cut and sell. However I also have plenty of wood to cut at lower elevations and especially Oak which sells for twice as much as any thing else. So I go where it is the easiest and hardwood is the most important. Thanks

Our highest mountain (hill to you) is 7300 lol

 

[ericm979]

With my CM saws I find that if I shut down too quickly after making cuts, the computer tells the carb to be richer than it needs for the next hot start and floods it. I try to remember to let the saw idle for 10 seconds or so before shutting down. That gives the saw a bit of a cooldown and lets the computer adjust for idling. When I forget, a couple pulls with the throttle open clears the excess fuel and it starts.

 

[oldbuzzard]

I doubt there is any where in Oz above 4000 ft where a man is allowed cut decent amounts of firewood. 12000 seems incredible to me.

Tree line in most of the US is 10-11 thousand feet. Not many trees over 11,500.

 

[Real1shepherd]

I did a lot of high altitude loggin' with Forest Service land in CO. Then in the winter we'd go down to lower elevations and cut Ponderosa pine. Saws would have to be readjusted. If I was losing power because of high elevations, you'd have to tell the big Husky 2100's I was using, because they didn't know it.

And yeah, timberline is about 11,000ft max. Nothing above that but rocks and glaciers. I'd like to see those '12,000ft' trees.

Kevin

 

[oldbuzzard]

I did a lot of high altitude loggin' with Forest Service land in CO. Then in the winter we'd go down to lower elevations and cut Ponderosa pine. Saws would have to be readjusted. If I was losing power because of high elevations, you'd have to tell the big Husky 2100's I was using, because they didn't know it.

And yeah, timberline is about 11,000ft max. Nothing above that but rocks and glaciers. I'd like to see those '12,000ft' trees.

Kevin

If I was lugging a Husky 2100 around at 10,000 feet my carburetor would be way beyond adjustment

 

[Sierra_rider]

All outdoor power equipment that relies on Gasoline will be prohibited in a year or so. The law has some exceptions. I am planning on buying four more new saws this year in anticipation. I have talked with several fire departments and they told me they have no idea what will happen. At the present time fire fighting will be a big deal with out equipment to do what is needed. Thanks

I think the deal is that saws greater than 45cc are federally regulated and exempt from carb regulation, so you should still be able to buy them. It's still a BS law and I'd be surprised if it gets implemented on their proposed time line...a lot of this zero-emission idiocy is just virtue signaling and isn't actually designed to be successfully implemented.

I did buy a couple of new climbing saws in the last year(also some larger saws,) so I'll be good for awhile.

https://ehsdailyadvisor.blr.com/2021/12/industry-opposition-to-carbs-upcoming-sore-regulations/

 

[Sierra_rider]

The only M-tronic saw I've used at high altitude (8k+) is my 201tcm. No issues running at that elevation, just a little down on power as would be expected.

 

[Real1shepherd]

If I was lugging a Husky 2100 around at 10,000 feet my carburetor would be way beyond adjustment

Was never a problem back then. You had muscle memory for heavy saws. The generation before me lugged around even heavier gear drive saws. Never heard them complain. The 2100 was more compact and lighter than the 075 POS I used before it.

Kevin

 

[oldbuzzard]

Was never a problem back then. You had muscle memory for heavy saws. The generation before me lugged around even heavier gear drive saws. Never heard them complain. The 2100 was more compact and lighter than the 075 POS I used before it.

Kevin

Muscle memory? Yeah, I remember when I had muscle
I’m seventy-three now. I can run a 50cc saw all day if it isn’t over about 80 degrees.

 

[Real1shepherd]

Muscle memory? Yeah, I remember when I had muscle
I’m seventy-three now. I can run a 50cc saw all day if it isn’t over about 80 degrees.

I'm almost 70 and I can still run a 2100 all day and a Jonsereds 80 feels 'light'. But a lot can happen in 4 or 5 yrs.......

Kevin

 

[ericm979]

All outdoor power equipment that relies on Gasoline will be prohibited in a year or so. The law has some exceptions. I am planning on buying four more new saws this year in anticipation. I have talked with several fire departments and they told me they have no idea what will happen. At the present time fire fighting will be a big deal with out equipment to do what is needed. Thanks

I'm going to provide this info for those who need it. I'd rather this not devolve into a political discussion. Those of us who live in California already know about our state's issues.

Here's the most applicable text of the law:
The whole thing is here: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB1346

43018.11.​

(a) (1) By July 1, 2022, the state board shall, consistent with federal law, adopt cost-effective and technologically feasible regulations to prohibit engine exhaust and evaporative emissions from new small off-road engines, as defined by the state board. Those regulations shall apply to engines produced on or after January 1, 2024, or as soon as the state board determines is feasible, whichever is later.
(2) In determining technological feasibility pursuant to paragraph (1), the state board shall consider all of the following:
(A) Emissions from small off-road engines in the state.
(B) Expected timelines for zero-emission small off-road equipment development.
(C) Increased demand for electricity from added charging requirements for more zero-emission small off-road equipment.
(D) Use cases of both commercial and residential lawn and garden users.
(E) Expected availability of zero-emission generators and emergency response equipment.
(b) Consistent with the regulations adopted pursuant to this section and relevant state law, the state board shall identify, and, to the extent feasible, make available, funding for commercial rebates or similar incentive funding as part of any updates to existing, applicable funding program guidelines for districts to implement to support the transition to zero-emission small off-road equipment operations.


We'll find out more when CARB releases the regs later this year. My understanding from people who have talked to the office of the legislator who authored the bill is that they may exempt saws over 45cc since there are no battery saws in that size class. Also that whole home generators over 25hp would be exempt as SOREs are by definition under 25hp. We'll see when the regs are issued. There should be a comment period and we should all comment.

If CARB's regs follow the law without any exceptions for availability or concern for costs, it'll be tough on a lot of people. Not only wildland fire fighters and professional and amateurs doing fuels reduction, but also folks living in areas with frequent power outages (which is a lot of the state). It can cost well over $20k to install a > 25hp whole home generator and meet all the requirements. A lot of folks can't afford that but can afford a portable generator.

I also expect there will be a LOT of engines manufactured in December 2023 or whenever the cutoff ends up being.

Again, please save the political rants for another thread. We already know, thanks.

 

[ValleyForge]

The black market will flourish in California….there is money to be made on that stupidity….