[cs-590] Hoping for some specific B&C suggestions, the longest & most-aggressive a 590 can push :)

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arborjunky
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My friend recently got one and has a 30-something on it, I know he was quite confident in the setup but haven't seen/spoken with him since....is 36" an unreasonable expectation? I mean, my biggest right now - a 42cc poulan pro - I have no doubt it'd go from its 18" to a 24" w/o much issue (the 590, like all of my powerheads especially Echo's, will have muffler/airbox/carb mods) So not hard for me to picture a 60cc echo (after the ~10% it seems you get from mods) being OK w/ a 36"....but I've never owned >18" so I'm just guessing blindly, I know I can go buy the 590 powerhead from Home Depots but am gonna need to order a B&C for it, reallllly hoping it's not "you really shouldn't go over 30" on that saw" or something...anyway any specific reco's are greatly appreciated, I know the importance of b&c but have "skated by" with my 3 climbsaws by simply buying those 2-packs from walmart and putting new chains on (and hitting the rakers) it's not so efficient but it's worked...but this 590-with-30"+ bar'd saw is gonna be my "trunk-wood saw", what will allow me to really tackle an entire fat-trunked tree w/o having to call in someone to partner with me (and show up at the last 10% of the job, and ask for 50% of the fee :p )

Thanks a ton for any suggestions, the more specific the better (and explanations are appreciated as well!!) So far as I can tell, sugi bars seem best but (like Silky's) the extra quality isn't worth the $ for me, I'm cheap/frugal/whatever, been meaning to look into the Notch bars but honestly my biggest concern with bars is their weight)
 
36" is in 90cc range. My MS 661 on 36" when needed (not often), mostly 24". 60cc most happy with 20". Similarly, don't exceed the 18" on little Poulan if you plan on keeping it..
Ported 046 w 24".
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I'm afraid I'm going to echo everyone else's sentiments (pun intended)... You may get away with a bar longer than 24" if you run a skip tooth chain but it definitely won't do it well & your overall wear & tear will be excessive. I'd also say it would void most aspects of your warranty if you have one.

have "skated by" with my 3 climbsaws by simply buying those 2-packs from walmart and putting new chains on (and hitting the rakers) it's not so efficient but it's worked..
Could you explain what you mean by this... it doesn't sound quite right to me

what will allow me to really tackle an entire fat-trunked tree w/o having to call in someone to partner with
How big of a "fat trunked tree" are you talking? With the right technique you should be able to cut through damn near a 40" log with a 24" bar
 
Could you explain what you mean by this... it doesn't sound quite right to me
Oh that's because it isn't right!!! I haven't found an efficient way to sharpen yet, spent a while trying to "hone my sharpening game" (bad pun sorry) but never got to the point where (with any amount of time spent being careful on it) that I could do a chain and be happy with it (had every problem from sideways-pulling to simply never ever getting close to new-chain-sharp)
So I just buy these generic 2-packs from walmart for ~$15, and when a chain no longer works well it either gets a touch-up sharpening for a lil more use before being swapped, or it's swapped immediately...makes far too big a difference (having a good/sharp chain) and the ~$7.50 for a new one beats the 20min+ it'd take me to do a C- sharpening job :/ I'm open to mechanical-sharpening ideas (I only have the basic 5/32's files, guides and raker-file), tried 30deg and 35deg angles doing it freehand (with the guide of course), tried the 'rocking' approach Buckin Billy Ray teaches ('get the gullet'), never once said to myself "damn this was a good job of sharpening" after testing a sharpened-chain :/


How big of a "fat trunked tree" are you talking? With the right technique you should be able to cut through damn near a 40" log with a 24" bar
Honestly unsure...It's more "to be capable", having the 42cc/18" Poulan as my most powerful feels improper (hell my 355t is right on its heels and oftentimes a more inviting choice even on-ground..)

It's just feeling unprepared/knowing I'm unprepared for bigger jobs - which is my entire goal right now - anytime I'd do contract work for removals they'd get this guy to come and he's got a big fancy Stihl the bar must be around 5' it's nuts but there's been several jobs where I'm doing the whole job except the 2nd half of the trunk...I don't do contract work anymore, "struck out on my own" this past year, so - with storm season starting to feel very real - I'd found myself feeling very naked only having a 42cc I mean jesus if a tree fell on my property I can't even be sure I'm capable of bucking it up, I've tried doing big trunk buck-ups with the poulan before and "it can do it" but it takes 10X longer than it should (nevermind the chains/bars you're frying trying to force that type of unit to just sit there at full throttle to buck 20' of Live Oak trunking....Live/Laurel Oaks make up a good 80% of my workload, laurel camphors probably 10%, all can develop these massive trunks that an 18" wouldn't touch, when I seek work right now / my whole "lead generation" is built around limb removals (specifically stuff that needs rigging IE over-house and over-pool limb removals are my most-frequent job) and I'm eager to get some full on removals on the schedule (and, w/ storm season, am expecting to be able to make that happen!!)
I agree with the other guys, in any sort of hard wood that 24" bar will make that a dead dog of a saw. Im not understanding where your getting these ideas that its advisable to run such large bars on smaller displacements saws.
Almost all of what I do is hard woods, actually I've never even done a full Pine/coniferous tree only limbing jobs (have been on dozens of full removals for oaks/camphors though), and the most-common is also the heaviest Live Oak at 76lbs / cu ft...so with an 18"/42cc as my best/strongest saw, I was/am feeling unprepared, had been under impression I could get away with 30-something on the 590 but now reading these replies I'm not even sure if wanting a 3'+ b&c is smart....I do know I'm underprepared having just the 18"/42cc as my best though!

Would be very thankful for reco's/thoughts on whether it's smarter to "go all in" and still aim for a big bar (with a higher displacement powerhead), getting something that's good for just 24" it..it "feels" too small still, no? I guess I would never really need such length routinely so now am almost thinking "get a powerhead that's properly fitted at 24", but buy a 32" b&c that you keep 'on-hand' so you can up-size it temporarily as-needed!', would you guys ever do that (putting on a longer-than-appropriate b&c just for here&there use)? Seems a decent solution to the "would rarely need >24, but badly want it my arsenal - also don't wanna pay $1k+ for a saw that may get used bi-monthly"! Can't imagine frying clutches/etc would be a worry if it was occasional use & the sawyer was careful /mindful not to be gunning/pushing it, would at least let you finish big trunks w/o doubling the work by doing "half from each side" cuts w/ a short bar!
 
On my 036 and my MS290, I run 20s. I have a 31 inch with full comp chain on my XL 923 Homelite (c. 1971), but that's an 82cc saw rated to handle up to 36. It also has both auto and manual oilers. Big bars belong on big saws! T-A
I've got as pair of late 70's 25d-series top handles mid restoration (homelite also released this platform), I'm pretty decent at working on older saws are there any models that are "commonly found"? Were larger displacement units ever "more common"? I've gotta say I am pretty surprised that, to go upward in displacement on a saw, that the price-per-CC actually seems to go upwards, haven't done the math but I would've assumed you spend 2X the $ you should get more than 2x the displacement, which doesn't seem to be the case (for instance echo 590 at $400 is 60cc, it's not like I can get a 90CC anything for $600..)
 
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. If you do, expect it to be very slow, very limited use. get yourself a very shallow depth gauge on the chain when sharpening. Take breaks to turn the chain and lube it up and let it cool down. Change positions in the cut to take smaller bites of wood. Our "big" saw was an Old Pro Mac 60cc with a manual override on the oiler and 36" bar and it did the big cuts we needed but was barely worth the effort.
 
Ok here's my honest opinion on what to get. Step up to something 70cc at minimum. I understand the money end of it. It took years till I had the money to get my 390xp. I would be looking hard as a nice used 372xp, or stihl ms462. Either will push a 24" all day and both can take a much longer bar. Will either handle a 5' bar not really but a 36" will pretty much be at home with a nice sharp skip chain. I prefer a husqy myself, but have had and ran plenty of stihls that were just as capable. If not more so. Any thing larger then 70cc would be a bonus, and capable of whatever you would need. Not taking anything away from a 590 echo, they are great saws at a great price point, but they can't even compete in power with the 60cc stihls and husqys.
 
I took apart a 5' diameter cottonwood with my 18" bar 034S. Wasn't ideal, took awhile, but did work. If I could have rented a 90+ cc saw for a day, I probably would have done that. Just wasn't willing to spend the $$$$ to buy one when that was the biggest tree I'd ever had to take apart, and had no plans to do so again, ever.

Edit: Five years onward, that has remained true. I'm looking for a ~90cc saw, but it's definitely a want and not a need.
 
I've got as pair of late 70's 25d-series top handles mid restoration (homelite also released this platform), I'm pretty decent at working on older saws are there any models that are "commonly found"? Were larger displacement units ever "more common"? I've gotta say I am pretty surprised that, to go upward in displacement on a saw, that the price-per-CC actually seems to go upwards, haven't done the math but I would've assumed you spend 2X the $ you should get more than 2x the displacement, which doesn't seem to be the case (for instance echo 590 at $400 is 60cc, it's not like I can get a 90CC anything for $600..)

Fewer people are buying saws in the 90cc range than the 60cc range, probably 1/10th as many. Reduced economy of scale, reduced buyer pool to spread R&D costs across, greater shipping costs, all adds up to higher cost in the end.

My advice would be to pony up and spend the money on good equipment. Cruise the classifieds here and grab a good 372 or 460 and put a 24" bar on it. Just plain spend what it costs to get a quality tool. A year from now you won't even remember what it cost, but you'll still have a solid running saw.

As @GeorgiaVol said, if you're used to a 42cc Poulan, ANY of these are going to be an entirely new world for you. You'll be going from a homeowner saw, meant for intermittent use, that's pretty well maxed out just with it's 18" low pro bar and chain, to something completely comfortable pulling a 24" all day long.
 
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