Echo CS-490 DEAD after 11.5 months?

[Wow]

The only Echo saw I had a Problem with is the cs 352. I believe the Clutch Cover is a factor defect. On the cs310 the saw is weak enough to not break first time you drop a chain. The cs352 clutch cover is the same as the 310. On the cs352 it's just weak. The part is around 12 bucks but my issue is the weakness in the part and the way my dealer reacted when I brought a new saw in for the broke (weak and thin cast) chain catcher.
The bigger Echo saws have never needed a part yet other than chains and bars which no one expects those to be warranty. However a dealer gave Echo and himself a black eye over a 10/12 dollar part which I would have installed myself. Good service makes a company. Good day.

 

[North by Northwest]

Not limited to Echo , have tuned numerous MS261 & MS361 back in the day that were lean from the factory . The carbs were referred to as epa compliant back then . All my Husky & my Dolkitas are tunablebwith either spline or double d or Pacman tools . I have lost count of the number of grass trimmers and blowers that I have been asked to tune or rejet , even a few lawnmowers with the auto chokes . I hate the thermostatic bimettalic units , although the alcohol filled units are not much better . I remember when dealers inspected and tuned all saws in the cut prior to sale across the board .

 

[Cliff R]

I even have to "re-tune" many Honda small engines on power washers and generator sets as the ones sold more than about 10 years ago run lean on this new fuel. No one is taking that into account either, as it takes apprx 5-7 percent more of this new **** to equal older fuel blends.

Here's a great story on how that works although not chainsaw related. Customer comes in with a Honda 3000 watt generator that woln't start. Typically gen set, got used once about 8-10 years ago, purchased after a big storm took out power for week. Owner doesn't use it again, and it gets put away with Stabil in it and he thinks good to go till next time. ( I love Stabil and other additives used in lieu of dumping the fuel and putting fresh gas in it next time!)

Jump ahead to 2020, owner needs it and it refuses to start. I take the carb apart, remarkably it's pretty clean, only real problem is that the fuel is bad, can BARELY light it with a torch after dumping apprx 3 gallons into my gravel driveway. Usually I'm running for my life with that deal but this stuff burns more like kerosene than gasoline! Fresh fuel added, starts right up, runs OK until I push the choke all the way in, then it "hunts" profusely and under load will only pull about 82volts at rated wattage.

The owner tells me it's ALWAYS hunted a little bit till really warmed up no-load, but smooth under load. I tell him it's not even close to making rated wattage.

So with the 3000 watt load on it I gently pull in the choke flap and it speeds up to 115 volts and engine smooths right out. Push the choke back in and it falls right back to 80 something volts. Off comes the carb, and I open the main jet up .001". Back on it goes, and much better but still requires a little choke angle to pull rated load at 115-120 volts. 2 more tries at .001" each time and BINGO! It's now pulling 3000 watts at 115 volts without having to "tip" the choke in at all.

I run it for 45 minutes or so, top it off with fresh fuel and call him to come get it. I've done that EXACT same thing scores of times with older small 4 stroke engines with fixed jets in them, and all but a few were Honda's. Honda seems to be much better at pleasing the EPA even back then had their stuff right on the edge, so now on this fuel many aren't up to par and need a little help.

As this relates to chainsaws they leave the factory these days with limiter caps and/or taper-proof mixture screws, and even fixed jets to keep anyone from fattening them up where they really need to be. Also keep in mind that with all that said the folks making these saws have little if any control over what part of the Country they end up in (altitude and DA), fuel quality that's going to be used in them, etc. Factor all that into this conversation and it's amazing we don't see a LOT more "smoked" P/C's than we do with these saws.........Cliff

 

[North by Northwest]

I even have to "re-tune" many Honda small engines on power washers and generator sets as the ones sold more than about 10 years ago run lean on this new fuel. No one is taking that into account either, as it takes apprx 5-7 percent more of this new **** to equal older fuel blends.

Here's a great story on how that works although not chainsaw related. Customer comes in with a Honda 3000 watt generator that woln't start. Typically gen set, got used once about 8-10 years ago, purchased after a big storm took out power for week. Owner doesn't use it again, and it gets put away with Stabil in it and he thinks good to go till next time. ( I love Stabil and other additives used in lieu of dumping the fuel and putting fresh gas in it next time!)

Jump ahead to 2020, owner needs it and it refuses to start. I take the carb apart, remarkably it's pretty clean, only real problem is that the fuel is bad, can BARELY light it with a torch after dumping apprx 3 gallons into my gravel driveway. Usually I'm running for my life with that deal but this stuff burns more like kerosene than gasoline! Fresh fuel added, starts right up, runs OK until I push the choke all the way in, then it "hunts" profusely and under load will only pull about 82volts at rated wattage.

The owner tells me it's ALWAYS hunted a little bit till really warmed up no-load, but smooth under load. I tell him it's not even close to making rated wattage.

So with the 3000 watt load on it I gently pull in the choke flap and it speeds up to 115 volts and engine smooths right out. Push the choke back in and it falls right back to 80 something volts. Off comes the carb, and I open the main jet up .001". Back on it goes, and much better but still requires a little choke angle to pull rated load at 115-120 volts. 2 more tries at .001" each time and BINGO! It's now pulling 3000 watts at 115 volts without having to "tip" the choke in at all.

I run it for 45 minutes or so, top it off with fresh fuel and call him to come get it. I've done that EXACT same thing scores of times with older small 4 stroke engines with fixed jets in them, and all but a few were Honda's. Honda seems to be much better at pleasing the EPA even back then had their stuff right on the edge, so now on this fuel many aren't up to par and need a little help.

As this relates to chainsaws they leave the factory these days with limiter caps and/or taper-proof mixture screws, and even fixed jets to keep anyone from fattening them up where they really need to be. Also keep in mind that with all that said the folks making these saws have little if any control over what part of the Country they end up in (altitude and DA), fuel quality that's going to be used in them, etc. Factor all that into this conversation and it's amazing we don't see a LOT more "smoked" P/C's than we do with these saws.........Cliff

Yep I hear you . I have ran into the same situations . The majority of small engine complaints can be sourced back to poor quality fuel and bandaid solutions . Like I said when ever I purchased a ope unit I insisted it was serviced and tuned for my usage .

 

[Wow]

Cliff that's great to know. I've seen the exact thing. Had a Briggs 4 cycle hunting. The factory carb was replaced by an aftermarket which is more like the older carbs. Runs great. Right now I am snowed. Have a 4cycle 6 ish hp Koler on a Tiller doing what you described. A Bigger Briggs on a DR Stump grinder, same thing. What tool are you using to open jets?
Where can they be found?
One time I had something kinda like a small twisted wire that seemed to work on some things.
Do they make a drill bit that small?
About Generators. I have 4 and my favorite is a very old one bought at a Resell store. Maybe Big Lots ? Price I remember. 230 bucks 3600 surge 3,000 continuous. At the time girl friend said, DO YOU REALLY need that EXPENSIVE thing. I replied, no but I want it. That engine is a clone. Honda 6 hp. It's used often. Never fails. Adjustable carb. I have no experience with HF generators but some I see have the muffler to near the Power source and the inner wires get to hot. Insulation melts, gen shorts, burns up stator. Warranty no good seller blames owner saying You over loaded the generator.
I'm removing gas tank. Building heat shields adding a fan installing gas tank. Why must we actually re engeneer products we buy!!!
Look how thin the gussets are on this Clutch Cover. Those hold the Chain Catcher. I've actually added MORE plastic on mine. This fits Echo cs 352 and 310. Why can't Echo beef this up? Because they don't cover it by Warranty, maybe.
Thankfully, my other Echo saws seem to be better built. So I was told at dealer. Well THIS IS a cheap home owner saw. So does that mean, We built it with this flaw because we don't care?
I feel sorry for the normal people who buy stuff that breaks and are told, Oh its YOUR own fault. Have a great day.

 

[North by Northwest]

Cliff that's great to know. I've seen the exact thing. Had a Briggs 4 cycle hunting. The factory carb was replaced by an aftermarket which is more like the older carbs. Runs great. Right now I am snowed. Have a 4cycle 6 ish hp Koler on a Tiller doing what you described. A Bigger Briggs on a DR Stump grinder, same thing. What tool are you using to open jets?
Where can they be found?
One time I had something kinda like a small twisted wire that seemed to work on some things.
Do they make a drill bit that small?
About Generators. I have 4 and my favorite is a very old one bought at a Resell store. Maybe Big Lots ? Price I remember. 230 bucks 3600 surge 3,000 continuous. At the time girl friend said, DO YOU REALLY need that EXPENSIVE thing. I replied, no but I want it. That engine is a clone. Honda 6 hp. It's used often. Never fails. Adjustable carb. I have no experience with HF generators but some I see have the muffler to near the Power source and the inner wires get to hot. Insulation melts, gen shorts, burns up stator. Warranty no good seller blames owner saying You over loaded the generator.
I'm removing gas tank. Building heat shields adding a fan installing gas tank. Why must we actually re engeneer products we buy!!!
Look how thin the gussets are on this Clutch Cover. Those hold the Chain Catcher. I've actually added MORE plastic on mine. This fits Echo cs 352 and 310. Why can't Echo beef this up? Because they don't cover it by Warranty, maybe.
Thankfully, my other Echo saws seem to be better built. So I was told at dealer. Well THIS IS a cheap home owner saw. So does that mean, We built it with this flaw because we don't care?
I feel sorry for the normal people who buy stuff that breaks and are told, Oh its YOUR own fault. Have a great day. View attachment 828007

Yep cheap man made mold injected plastic . The homeowner level echo's are less quality . You buy the higher end models they become much better quality . P.S. for carb cleaning of jets or fuel circuits tag wire or welders torch cleaning tips along with carb cleaning fluid and compressed air. I purchased a ultrasonic cleaner for stubborn cases !

 

[Wow]

Yep cheap man made mold injected plastic . The homeowner level echo's are less quality . You buy the higher end models they become much better quality . P.S. for carb cleaning of jets or fuel circuits tag wire or welders torch cleaning tips along with carb cleaning fluid and compressed air. I purchased a ultrasonic cleaner for stubborn cases !

Ok. Now I can admit that for wears I've used small wire and welder tip cleaners. I felt if I said that someone may call me a Jake Leg. In fact, hobestly, at times, I DO rig stuff or use tools TOTALLY unrelated. For Example:
The sporting goods stores sell a skinny long shaft Fish Hook Remover with a clamp way out on the end. I wrap the teeth and that is perfect tool for putting fuel lines on Poulan and similar saws. When I was working in Propane we actually had brass tap in jets and tiny drills but I haven't seen them for these tiny carbs. AND, after I beefed up the clutch cover on the 352 it's a good little saw. My mid size Favorite is the cs490. The semi large saw is the cs 590. My brother bought the cs620P and uses it very little. I wish I had bought that saw but the 590 is a good saw. With the recent storms and High winds I'm snowed. My step Son, just today ased me how do I keep going. He's getting a knee Replacement soon and when he was 23 I could out work him. Genetics, and God. At 73 my life is great and I'm happier than I have ever been.
My Sthil 029 is 21 years old and better than ever. The 024 is older. My guess is all these saws will out live me but I do baby them. I've got an old Jonsered top handle I've began to think has become to dangerous for me to use. I love tree work. Trimming, pruning, and felling. But it does kinda feel strange killing something we love. It seems kinda strange to love Chainsaws and Trees at the same time. Ha. Ha.
But a guy can love guns and hate killing. Okay, I'm thinking this way to deep. Ha. Ha. Blessings.

 

[cnczane]

Just reporting here that my Echo CS-490 which has been a rock for the three years I've owned it, working it hard mostly in the summers, after a solid week of daily all-day use, "just" "suddenly" began going downhill in running performance. It would act like it was flooding when revving up and its top speed gradually became slower, until finally I was resorting to "sawing" it back and forth to get it through the final cut. (Yep, I'm a dope, but I just didn't want to stop cutting until I knew an extended downtime for cleaning was justified. )

I could not find replacement air and fuel filters anywhere within 50 miles, and online was going to take a week. I disassembled (popped apart) the air filter, and washed it in laundry detergent (scrubbing with an old toothbrush) and hung it out to dry. Figuring that the fuel filter was always being washed in gas, I washed it in laundry detergent too, and set it out on a hot sidewalk in 80-degree sun. When I put them back in, performance was much improved, but still did not match the top performance of another saw of similar displacement.

Then I remembered the "spark arrestor" information I'd seen somewhere, and found it located on the side of the muffler. I, barely, removed two Phillips screws (M4x6 if you care--I'm going to replace them with hex socket screws because I came so close to stripping the heads) and found the arrestor screen. What's that they say about arteries? Well, I'd put it at about 85% blockage. I used a wire brush to "poke" rather than brush the screen and replaced it.

Performance went right back up to reliable.

 

[cuinrearview]

Your spark plug has probably seen better days...

 

[cnczane]

Your spark plug has probably seen better days...

Actually @cuinrearview, the plug looks like a picture of a "good" plug shown in those classic DIY auto repair books: not oily or burned, just an even coating of gray. I had it out before thinking of the arrestor and gave it a wire brushing. Yesterday I ran it all day and there was never a moment of hesitation to get full power.

Incidentally I did replace the two Phillips/cross head screws with Allen/socket cap screws M4-0.7x6mm and used a little neverseize.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Cliff that's great to know. I've seen the exact thing. Had a Briggs 4 cycle hunting. The factory carb was replaced by an aftermarket which is more like the older carbs. Runs great. Right now I am snowed. Have a 4cycle 6 ish hp Koler on a Tiller doing what you described. A Bigger Briggs on a DR Stump grinder, same thing. What tool are you using to open jets?
Where can they be found?
One time I had something kinda like a small twisted wire that seemed to work on some things.
Do they make a drill bit that small?
About Generators. I have 4 and my favorite is a very old one bought at a Resell store. Maybe Big Lots ? Price I remember. 230 bucks 3600 surge 3,000 continuous. At the time girl friend said, DO YOU REALLY need that EXPENSIVE thing. I replied, no but I want it. That engine is a clone. Honda 6 hp. It's used often. Never fails. Adjustable carb. I have no experience with HF generators but some I see have the muffler to near the Power source and the inner wires get to hot. Insulation melts, gen shorts, burns up stator. Warranty no good seller blames owner saying You over loaded the generator.
I'm removing gas tank. Building heat shields adding a fan installing gas tank. Why must we actually re engeneer products we buy!!!
Look how thin the gussets are on this Clutch Cover. Those hold the Chain Catcher. I've actually added MORE plastic on mine. This fits Echo cs 352 and 310. Why can't Echo beef this up? Because they don't cover it by Warranty, maybe.
Thankfully, my other Echo saws seem to be better built. So I was told at dealer. Well THIS IS a cheap home owner saw. So does that mean, We built it with this flaw because we don't care?
I feel sorry for the normal people who buy stuff that breaks and are told, Oh its YOUR own fault. Have a great day. View attachment 828007

To open carb jets, use micro drill bits and a pin vise like the set in the link below, Note, you turn these bits with your fingers not a powered drill
https://www.amazon.ca/FineGood-Prec...oding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B081WWQJ8D&pd_rd_r=6b18aae

 

[tomalophicon]

I recently purchased a CS-310 and noticed that after every use there's a moderate amount of very fine wood particles behind the filter, trapped in the black plastic carb surround.

 

[Wow]

I recently purchased a CS-310 and noticed that after every use there's a moderate amount of very fine wood particles behind the filter, trapped in the black plastic carb surround.

Did anyone ever hear anyone else (besides me) say. The Echo cs310 is not, no nunca, no ever is going to be half as good as the cs352. The cs310 is IMHO a market saw to drive the price up on the cs352. If Echo tossed the 310 right out the back door and dropped the price just a little bit on the cs 352 id jump for Joy. Joy would probably Dodge me. Maybe even tell on me. But seriously. I HAD a cs310. The cs352 has better AV. Better motor not just 4 cc better, better as BETTER. Better Air breather. So the outside plastic looks the same. Salesman tells Johnny Homeowner. Ah, sir this in here is 199 an tax. That in over their is jus 4 cc bigger ifn you need bigger BUT they are identical really sepn da motor. No liar. Jesus hates you. Truth. Truth is I wasted money on a 310 before I realized I'd been hoping to ride the bull but It was me the bill rode. Please, everyone, please stop thinking just because some things favor they are sisters. Get the cs352 and pay the piper the difference. Echo knows this fact. But money honey, that's the name of the game. Disclaimer:
I hate the cs310 I had,. Yours might wash the car, do laundry and milk the goat. Ifn you like yourn well den I'ma happy pappy.

 

[tomalophicon]

Did anyone ever hear anyone else (besides me) say. The Echo cs310 is not, no nunca, no ever is going to be half as good as the cs352. The cs310 is IMHO a market saw to drive the price up on the cs352. If Echo tossed the 310 right out the back door and dropped the price just a little bit on the cs 352 id jump for Joy. Joy would probably Dodge me. Maybe even tell on me. But seriously. I HAD a cs310. The cs352 has better AV. Better motor not just 4 cc better, better as BETTER. Better Air breather. So the outside plastic looks the same. Salesman tells Johnny Homeowner. Ah, sir this in here is 199 an tax. That in over their is jus 4 cc bigger ifn you need bigger BUT they are identical really sepn da motor. No liar. Jesus hates you. Truth. Truth is I wasted money on a 310 before I realized I'd been hoping to ride the bull but It was me the bill rode. Please, everyone, please stop thinking just because some things favor they are sisters. Get the cs352 and pay the piper the difference. Echo knows this fact. But money honey, that's the name of the game. Disclaimer:
I hate the cs310 I had,. Yours might wash the car, do laundry and milk the goat. Ifn you like yourn well den I'ma happy pappy.

Mine was extremely cheap from the box store - last one before they ditched echo It won't be used for anything except backyard duties. Already drilled out the cat and destroyed the limiter caps.

 

[North by Northwest]

I recently purchased a CS-310 and noticed that after every use there's a moderate amount of very fine wood particles behind the filter, trapped in the black plastic carb surround.

Try a little grease around the sealing edge of the filter . All Echos are set extremely lean from the factory , resetting the carb is paramount . Also a muffler mod makes them really wake up . The epa guideline mandate ties the factories hands , fortunately a little tuning makes these little wonders growl , especially the cs352 & cs400 .

 

[North by Northwest]

Did anyone ever hear anyone else (besides me) say. The Echo cs310 is not, no nunca, no ever is going to be half as good as the cs352. The cs310 is IMHO a market saw to drive the price up on the cs352. If Echo tossed the 310 right out the back door and dropped the price just a little bit on the cs 352 id jump for Joy. Joy would probably Dodge me. Maybe even tell on me. But seriously. I HAD a cs310. The cs352 has better AV. Better motor not just 4 cc better, better as BETTER. Better Air breather. So the outside plastic looks the same. Salesman tells Johnny Homeowner. Ah, sir this in here is 199 an tax. That in over their is jus 4 cc bigger ifn you need bigger BUT they are identical really sepn da motor. No liar. Jesus hates you. Truth. Truth is I wasted money on a 310 before I realized I'd been hoping to ride the bull but It was me the bill rode. Please, everyone, please stop thinking just because some things favor they are sisters. Get the cs352 and pay the piper the difference. Echo knows this fact. But money honey, that's the name of the game. Disclaimer:
I hate the cs310 I had,. Yours might wash the car, do laundry and milk the goat. Ifn you like yourn well den I'ma happy pappy.

Hey pardner , good to hear from you again , how's the apple orchard ? Seems every manufacturer has an orphan saw series . Dolmar has the same scenerio with 510 vs the 5105 series , no comparison in performance & overall quality , small things that initially go unnoticed .

 

[mountainlake]

With a muff modd and good tuning those CS352 cut good for 34cc. Steve

 

[North by Northwest]

With a muff modd and good tuning those CS352 cut good for 34cc. Steve

A little metal contouring & polishing makes them even better !

 

[tomalophicon]

Try a little grease around the sealing edge of the filter . All Echos are set extremely lean from the factory , resetting the carb is paramount . Also a muffler mod makes them really wake up . The epa guideline mandate ties the factories hands , fortunately a little tuning makes these little wonders growl , especially the cs352 & cs400 .

Thanks. I'll try that.
Yes first thing I did was drill out the cat and reset the tuning. This thing is impressive with a 12" bar. Sounds wicked for a small saw.

 

[rickwil]

Hi all,

Long time lurker who just joined. I'm not a professional, but do a fair amount of sawing mainly for firewood and storm cleanup around my property. Thanks for the add. I just got off the phone with my local small engine guy, and he gave me the bad news that my Echo Cs-490 has scored engine cylinders and is not worth fixing. Up until a month ago, I was singing this saws praises and planning on buying the 680 during the next dealer days.

Background:
Last October 30, we had a very bad windstorm and I used it as an excuse to buy a second saw (other is stihl MS270) so that we could have two people cutting. I bought it stock from Home Depot, and I've used the heck out of it for the better part of a year. I run pre-mix most of the time and mix echo oil with premium gas when I am burning through lots. It's probably had about 6-7 gallons of gas through it, and I am really good about keeping gas fresh and sta-bilzed. About a month ago, it started bogging down and stalling. I put the Echo tune up kit on it, but this did not resolve my issues. So, I took it to the local guy who informed me that the cylinders were scored.

Dealing with Echo:
I called echo corporate and they informed me that the issue was almost certainly bad gas, which wasn't covered. They then informed me that I would have to drive it to a dealership and pay $40 to get it diagnosed. At which point, it would probably be $40 to be told I was SOL. I had an honest conversation with the dealer, and he said that it was unlikely they'd be able to warranty it unless they found some obvious defect. I actually appreciate the dealer and think he is kind of in a tough spot in this situation. He did say that he'd apply the $40 to a new saw purchase if it cam e to that.

Yes, yes, the simplest solution is the right solution most the time, BUT...
Anything is possible, but I really don't think this is a case of bad/straight gas for me. I am very careful about which cans have what gas. I have only 1 single gallon can on my property for mixed gas, and the rest are 5 gallons for straight gas. I checked the saw, and it has mixed gas in it. I checked the 4 other 2 cycle engines on my property, some still have gas from the last mixed batch, and they all have mixed gas in them. None of my other engines are acting up, including an echo string trimmer. I've never lent this saw out and I am the only one who uses it. If they said the problem was that I've been running it too hard in stump, etc, I'd believe them. But, I don't believe I ran straight gas.

So...at this point, I am out $55 for the tune up kit and the local repair guys time. I am looking at spending another $40 to be likely told I am SOL by the dealer. Has anybody had any experience with this. The local guy said he used to be a warranty dealer for Echo, and he suggested I push for a "warranty modification."

The only silver lining is that I might be getting the MS391 sooner than expected.

Thanks,

I was mechanical supervisor for government forestry forest protection. After experiencing scored cylinders on some 2 stroke engines I switched our 2 stroke oil to Amsoil synthetic 2 stroke oil. In the next 2 years there were no more scored cylinders. An analysis lab report showed very little wear on an engine with 200 hours on it and very little ash and carbon deposits compared to one with regular 2 stroke oil. I'd rate Amsoil synthetic very high.