Fallen Hickory - Cutting Advice

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mbaisley

ArboristSite Lurker
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
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Location
East TN
Hello, this is my first time posting. Would appreciate some advice.

First, I'm an amateur but I'm not a rookie. I have a good saw (Stihl 271 20") and I keep it sharp and well maintained. I have quality protective gear (kevlar chaps, gloves, helmet, face shield), and I am conservative about not taking undue risks. I exercise the utmost precaution in terms of safety. In other words, I generally have a good sense of what I can do myself versus when I should call a professional. I don't have an ego or hero mentality about stuff that can kill me.

I have a very nice, straight, mature hickory that blew down (uprooted) last summer. The canopy fell into some adjacent smaller trees,so the hickory is slightly suspended. At about 15 feet up the trunk (from the bottom of the trunk) it is suspended about 4 feet off of the ground. From there up into the canopy, it gets higher off of the ground and this is the part of the tree I'm worried about. Parts of the canopy are as much as 25 feet or so in the air, and the weight of the hickory is leaning heavy against the smaller trees.

My plan is to cut the hickory about 15 feet up the trunk (15 feet from the bottom) and let the weight of the canopy fall wherever it wants to. If it knocks down any of the smaller trees, I'm fairly confident they would fall away from me, but I would obviously give a lot of consideration to my escape route -- just in case.

I'm trying to figure out the kind of cut that would make sense from a "physics" standpoint.

I'm attaching pictures. My questions are:

(1) Does my basic plan sound okay?

(2) What type of cut would you use based on how the weight is distributed? In other words, how would you cut it to avoid binding the bar and chain, but more importantly, to get the upper part of the tree (from the cut up to the canopy) to fall straight down rather than swing out suddenly to the side and knocking me on my butt. Or also to avoid the "barber chair" effect with the trunk splitting and knocking my head off from the chin.

You can see I've slid a couple of big oak rounds under the lower portion of the trunk (below where I plan to make the cut) which I did to keep it propped up nicely off the ground. Because of the weight of the root ball, I'm 99.9% sure the lower part of the trunk won't twist or slide sideways and crush my feet (or worse).

Any advice would be much appreciated.

The reasons I'd like to do it myself versus hiring a pro:

(1) I like the challenge of figuring out how to do it safely.

(2) It's fallen right over our new septic drain field (which probably had a hand in the tree uprooting) and I don't want someone back there tearing up the ground with a skid steer or heavy equipment.

(3) I'd prefer saving the money, although I'm willing to pay someone to avoid making a stupid amateur mistake and making my wife a young widow.

Thanks,

Mike

Knoxville TN
 

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Here's another wider angle view.
 

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Sounds like you have a plan. I think I'd cut closer to the round of wood you've placed under the trunk.

Make sure you have someone there if things go bad.

Do you have plastic wedges to keep the kerf open?

Have you cut much using the top of the bar?
Yes sir, I do have wedges and I also have some (limited) experience cutting with the top of the bar. I've done enough that I understand what can go wrong, anyways.

Are you thinking I should do my first cut on the underside first, and then finish with a cut on the top? It's just hard for me to gauge whether the canopy end will hinge downward (away from the cut) or if it could hinge backwards towards the cut.

I know I'm asking about some basic fundamentals here, but I haven't ever had someone around who could teach me the right and wrong ways to cut.

Thanks for the reply and advice.
 
There is not a whole lot that we can tell from just the photos. Being there is way better.

If it's under tension on the top of the log you may be better off cutting all the way through from the bottom with the top of the bar. Or you could cut down until the kerf starts to close and stick in a wedge. You've been around a while it seems so you must have been doing pretty good.

That root ball may end up flopping back in the hole when enough weight is removed. Make sure nothing is under or near it when you are cutting. I read that one time a man's kid was playing in the area and the root ball flop got them.

Nice tractor you've got there. It opens up possibilities.
 
Thank you for the advice. I'll post back here after I've tackled this one.

I definitely won't take any chances with the root ball. That's awful about the child getting under there. I imagine that one did not have a happy ending.

And yes the John Deere has been a great tool to have on hand and a big time saver.. I just have the bucket on the front, a box blade, and a rototiller, but there's a LOT you can get done with those 3 implements. In the future I'd like to get a power rake for some finer grading work. I've thought about selling the tiller and getting the power rake.

Thanks again.
 
Just looking at the pics, I'd undercut starting at the round underneath it. I'd want a little more saw too. Full bar cuts in hickory is asking a lot of that saw, any amount of miscalculation and you're stopping the chain.

Edit: Also as mentioned above, if the root wants to flop back in the hole you won't want to be underneath with the first cut.
 
Just looking at the pics, I'd undercut starting at the round underneath it. I'd want a little more saw too. Full bar cuts in hickory is asking a lot of that saw, any amount of miscalculation and you're stopping the chain.

Edit: Also as mentioned above, if the root wants to flop back in the hole you won't want to be underneath with the first cut.
Thank you. I wondered if my little saw would have enough "gitty-up" for this one. I can probably borrow a big Poulon from a guy who did some work for me a couple years ago. I think it's a 24" so I imagine it has plenty of power.
 
What is that saw in the picture, a ms261? 362? 391? could be time to flip the bar...

+3 on an under cut. Maybe a little open face cut on top - it looks like the way its hung up the tension is underneath, compression is on top. Then again I am only looking at picture. Watch yr toes...
 
What is that saw in the picture, a ms261? 362? 391? could be time to flip the bar...

271 he said in the first post.

Anyway, I don’t think cutting where you put the saw is going to make the top fall. Can you get your tractor to it? Hickory takes a long time to dry too. I picked some up from a blow over that’s been split and stacked for almost 2 years and it’s still hanging around 20% moisture. Good luck and stay safe!
 
Cut from underneath yes, but make a small top cut first. This will prevent the saw from getting trapped by any peeling that may happen when the top strap breaks under pressure. When you cut a tree like this, make sure the cuts are vertical in relation to the ground, not the wood. This will allow the pieces to fall away without taking the saw with them.
Make your severing cut like this, starting at the top.....the small vertical cut to the right in the cross-section view is done to keep the upper and lower kerfs aligned so as to get a nice clean cut that won't get hung up, just in case you were wondering.....
EVLlW9Fh.png
 
Cut from underneath yes, but make a small top cut first. This will prevent the saw from getting trapped by any peeling that may happen when the top strap breaks under pressure. When you cut a tree like this, make sure the cuts are vertical in relation to the ground, not the wood. This will allow the pieces to fall away without taking the saw with them.
Make your severing cut like this, starting at the top.....the small vertical cut to the right in the cross-section view is done to keep the upper and lower kerfs aligned so as to get a nice clean cut that won't get hung up, just in case you were wondering.....
EVLlW9Fh.png
Trying to figure out your end on diagram. Is it a variation of a log bucking cut, for which you count down from the top, the backside, then the front part way through with the tip, then plunge cutting from front to back leaving a chunk in the middle, and lastly cutting the middle up from the bottom?

I would say the main hazard other than getting your saw stuck is the chance that the top is hung up in such a way that as the log is cut through, there is enough tension sideways that the hinge fails early, and instead of both pieces falling straight down, go towards or away from you. Or, the top moves both sideways and/or towards the stump as it falls.

Me?

I would want to take a long look at the top, then just cut the log whee the height off the ground is comfortable; small top face, then cut up from the bottom with the top of the bar with motor on my knee.

Allows you to step away quicker when it starts to go, then holding the saw upside down. Probably use something like my O46 or O66.
 
Trying to figure out your end on diagram. Is it a variation of a log bucking cut, for which you count down from the top, the backside, then the front part way through with the tip, then plunge cutting from front to back leaving a chunk in the middle, and lastly cutting the middle up from the bottom?
Just follow the arrows....make a small cut downward (maybe 1/4 to 1/3 diameter) from the top to prevent any peeling from a top strap. Pull the saw back and continue cutting downward with the tip. The keeps the upper and lower kerfs aligned. Cut all the way out, push the bar back in and start cutting from the bottom. Cut right to the bottom of the upper cut up following the kerf. The lower piece should separate from the upper and fall straight down.

I would say the main hazard other than getting your saw stuck is the chance that the top is hung up in such a way that as the log is cut through, there is enough tension sideways that the hinge fails early, and instead of both pieces falling straight down, go towards or away from you. Or, the top moves both sideways and/or towards the stump as it falls.
Do it right and there is no hinge....You are making up scenarios that aren't relevant to this situation. When the tree is almost on the ground already, as in the OP, this will work fine and be a lot easier and safer than making a face cut, doing a back cut etc...why would you hold the saw upside down?
As in any situation, if you don't know how to judge how a storm damaged tree will react maybe you shouldn't be trying to do it yourself....I did storm damage for 30+ years, lots worse than in the OP pics, and have done all the training too. This is the preferred method and it works well.
 
Just follow the arrows....make a small cut downward (maybe 1/4 to 1/3 diameter) from the top to prevent any peeling from a top strap. Pull the saw back and continue cutting downward with the tip. The keeps the upper and lower kerfs aligned. Cut all the way out, push the bar back in and start cutting from the bottom. Cut right to the bottom of the upper cut up following the kerf. The lower piece should separate from the upper and fall straight down.


Do it right and there is no hinge....You are making up scenarios that aren't relevant to this situation. When the tree is almost on the ground already, as in the OP, this will work fine and be a lot easier and safer than making a face cut, doing a back cut etc...why would you hold the saw upside down?
As in any situation, if you don't know how to judge how a storm damaged tree will react maybe you shouldn't be trying to do it yourself....I did storm damage for 30+ years, lots worse than in the OP pics, and have done all the training too. This is the preferred method and it works well.
The cut you describe is really similar to the bucking cut I described. The way I do it, a small piece is left in the middle.
 
Many thanks to each of you for the advice. I still haven’t attempted this one yet. Every time I worked up the desire to tackle it, I was either slammed at work or the weather turned nasty.
Spring is upon us here now, so I intend to try it next weekend.
Again, thanks for the advice.
 
I don’t know what your budget is for this project, or need to justify purchases, but I picked up a 1/2” x 200’ arborist rope rated for 8000lbs and 4 x 20,000lb 1/2” snatch blocks off Amazon for about $225. They have come in handy so many times for me and it looks like you could use something like this around your property eventually. I went with 200 foot so that I could make a 4:1 system. If you had something like that you could just pull it over to where it’s sitting on the ground using the tractor. I used mine to remove a large white oak that fell on top of a live oak. I had already removed the crown in this picture, but the trunk that’s left was about 45’ long and 19” diameter at the first branch. I lifted it out with my truck.
1643211261727.jpeg
 
Hello, this is my first time posting. Would appreciate some advice.

First, I'm an amateur but I'm not a rookie. I have a good saw (Stihl 271 20") and I keep it sharp and well maintained. I have quality protective gear (kevlar chaps, gloves, helmet, face shield), and I am conservative about not taking undue risks. I exercise the utmost precaution in terms of safety. In other words, I generally have a good sense of what I can do myself versus when I should call a professional. I don't have an ego or hero mentality about stuff that can kill me.

I have a very nice, straight, mature hickory that blew down (uprooted) last summer. The canopy fell into some adjacent smaller trees,so the hickory is slightly suspended. At about 15 feet up the trunk (from the bottom of the trunk) it is suspended about 4 feet off of the ground. From there up into the canopy, it gets higher off of the ground and this is the part of the tree I'm worried about. Parts of the canopy are as much as 25 feet or so in the air, and the weight of the hickory is leaning heavy against the smaller trees.

My plan is to cut the hickory about 15 feet up the trunk (15 feet from the bottom) and let the weight of the canopy fall wherever it wants to. If it knocks down any of the smaller trees, I'm fairly confident they would fall away from me, but I would obviously give a lot of consideration to my escape route -- just in case.

I'm trying to figure out the kind of cut that would make sense from a "physics" standpoint.

I'm attaching pictures. My questions are:

(1) Does my basic plan sound okay?

(2) What type of cut would you use based on how the weight is distributed? In other words, how would you cut it to avoid binding the bar and chain, but more importantly, to get the upper part of the tree (from the cut up to the canopy) to fall straight down rather than swing out suddenly to the side and knocking me on my butt. Or also to avoid the "barber chair" effect with the trunk splitting and knocking my head off from the chin.

You can see I've slid a couple of big oak rounds under the lower portion of the trunk (below where I plan to make the cut) which I did to keep it propped up nicely off the ground. Because of the weight of the root ball, I'm 99.9% sure the lower part of the trunk won't twist or slide sideways and crush my feet (or worse).

Any advice would be much appreciated.

The reasons I'd like to do it myself versus hiring a pro:

(1) I like the challenge of figuring out how to do it safely.

(2) It's fallen right over our new septic drain field (which probably had a hand in the tree uprooting) and I don't want someone back there tearing up the ground with a skid steer or heavy equipment.

(3) I'd prefer saving the money, although I'm willing to pay someone to avoid making a stupid amateur mistake and making my wife a young widow.

Thanks,

Mike

Knoxville TN

I'm not a pro. I'd likely do a typical "hung up leaner" snap cut if it seemed like a good idea if I was there with an eyeball on it. *shrug*.
 
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